Catholic Schools vs. Public Schools

[lucky81698]

My son will be going into the 4th grade next year. He had always done well in school, and still does. But this year has been horrendous. His 2nd grade teacher told me to request a certain teacher for the third grade. I did and that is the teacher he had. This guy was highly recommended by numerous people. He is a great guy, very nice. The only problem is, they ended up with 6 what they call "high maintenance" kids in the class. After talking to the guidance couselor, I found out that the Intermediate school did not get enough info from the Primary school regarding these kids. They are extremely disruptive and the teacher has spent most of the time breaking up arguments and disiplining them. So while my son has done well in math, I have noticed his reading and Spanish grades have gone down. They are still good, but he went from a 98 in reading last year to about an 86 this year. Plus his handwriting is now awful when it used to be great. He has no interest in doing his homework neatly becaue "why bother the teacher never looks at it".
Plus he has had problems on the bus with bullies. The school seems to do nothing. I don't know if I'm letting this get to me so much because I am so disgusted by one bad year. The guidance couselor told me that they normally only have one or two of those kids in a class and they screwed up.

I was so disgusted that I went by the Catholic school right around the corner from our house. I got some info and took a tour of the school. The school seemed to be pretty run down in terms of appearance. (My husband said most Catholic schools are like that). This school is alot smaller than the public school, there will be only 2 fourth grade homerooms as opposed to 12. This school goes up to 8th grade where as my son will have to change schools again in 6th grade and then 9th if he stayed in the public school. The public schools here have alot better/nicer faclilities. But I did notice that our school district, while once very good, has seemed to go down in the rankings. There are also a couple of "bad areas" that are part of the district. There is a what seems to be a good number of kids that it is so obvious that they have no parental control.

The cost of the Catholic school is $2700 (discounted from $3560 since my son and husband are members of the church). We already pay about $1800 in school taxes, of which none of tuition for private school will be offset with the public school taxes. I am not Catholic and there are alot of things that I don't like about the religion (not to offend anyone), but I do think it is a good thing for a kid to have some sort of religous upbringing. I just want my son to have a good education and be around other kids that are "good" kids that know right from wrong and are taught there are consequences when they make the wrong choices. Am I kidding myself into thinking that is what I will get at a Catholic school as opposed to a public school?

I would appreciate any thoughts from anyone that has experience with this or from any of you teachers out there. I went to the same school district when I was growing up, but I don't remember it being like this. (My friend's nephew is in the high school and he told her she wouldn't believe the amount of times they have drug sniffing dogs and cops there). My husband went to public school up until high school, then he went to Catholic high school. (There were around 8,000 students in the public school where he lived and they had their own police department!) Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Jan

[skyrocketocelot]

I can't give a lot of guidance. But I did go to a small Christian private school for high school - the majority of my class (of 32) had enrolled in elementary/primary school and they grew up together. If I'd had the opportunity, I would have gone to it a long time before high school: it was really cool to see how close everyone was, like a big family. I'd say that's a pro of being in a smaller environment, especially if you get into it early on. And the teachers were all very interested in all their students' lives and really wanted us to succeed; I didn't feel that at all in public school. True, we didn't have some programs like public schools did. What we did have was pretty good though and they kept us really really busy!

Could you talk with some parents whose kids already go there and see how they feel about the school's academics and interest in the kids?

By the way, even though we were a Christian school, we had all the negative things in our school that public schools have: cliques, a drug/alcohol scene (kept very much out of school though), apathy towards learning (from some), disrespect, etc. However, the majority of the kids recognized the negatives and I can't tell you how many chapels we had encouraging us towards unity and putting our trust in God and loving each other IMO, we worked really hard to overcome the negative aspects... and that part is REALLY different from public schools: division, disrespect, etc... it's just expected.

Ok, I'll stop now! Hope it helped a little.

[Bigsweetie]

I think it's important to look at each school individually as opposed to "Catholic schools" vs. "Public Schools". There's no such thing as a "safer" type of school and/or one that doesn't have discipline problems.

My DH went to a Catholic school all twelve years and, frankly, I feel he didn't get a very good education. I'm not saying ALL Catholic schools are like that, i'm just saying the fact that it's a perochial school doesn't necessarily make it better than another type of school.

As for religion, personally (and it's just my personal opinion), sending your kid to a Catholic (or any other perochial school) will not make them more religious. It HAS to be reinforced at home. As I said, my DH went to a perochial school and, again, he is not as religious as I am. My ENTIRE family made it very well known that religion and faith were VERY important. Aunts, uncles, cousins, we all went to the same church, sat near each other, and all were very active in the church. That, more than anything, really hit home to me how important it was and to this day, i'm looking for a church HOME for my family (haven't found the right place yet, but we're working on it cause I want my daughter to have that as well).

I haven't decided which road we'll take with Emily and i'm keeping homeschooling in the back of my mind too. But when the time comes i'm going to look at all different types of schools individually and make the decision based on the feeling I get about the school itself.

Good luck!

[lucky81698]

I'm not looking to make my son more religious (I am pretty much the opposite of that!) but from reading some of the info I got from the school it does seem like they re-enforce values and morals that are taught at home. After seeing some of the kids in my son's school, it seems like no one is teaching them these things at all. For instance one kid that lives near my parents, (both of his siblings have been arrested for drug dealing, robbery, assault etc..) told my son that I was a "nig**r fuc*er". Now where does a third grader get that stuff from? This kid and his merry band of junior deliquents in training have no parental supervision whatsoever. I have talked to the school, they know who these kids are but there is not really too much they can or will do to disipline them. Oh wow, they have to stay in for recess, big punishment. It seems to me like no one is held accountable for their actions anymore, kids don't seem to be taught that anymore. It's very depressing to see.

When I took the tour of the Catholic school, we walked by the guidance office. The lady came out and I talked to her a minute. She told me that bullying is everywhere, but they seem to have a better handle on it than the other schools. As soon as they are made aware of problems they take action. She said an older boy had been picking on a couple younger kids on the bus. When they found out, he was kicked off the bus for 2 weeks and his parents had to drive him. Now he is a model busrider. Anytime a kid gets in trouble they are sent to the guidance office and made to call their parents while the guidance counselor is there. She said this new rule has reduced the incidents and seems to be very traumatic for kids to do. She told me of a girl that had been out sick and came back to school and was teased by how she looked by a boy in class. The teacher heard and he was immediately sent to the guidance office.

I looked at their rankings on the paperwork they gave me and the internet and it seems to be a good school. I have heard nothing but complaints about the school my son is in right now from just about every other parent I've talked to. Most say the school is not good, the pricinpal has no control at all over the school and it is basically a free for all at lunch and recess.

I would love to send my son the non religious private school here, but it is $15,000 a year! Yikes! I would never consider home schooling him at all. I don't feel I would be qualified to do so. I talked to my sister in law about that, she is a teacher and very much against it.

My husband was very much against sending him to the Catholic school but now I think he is getting fed up with all the nonsense that goes on and the lack of learning this year. All I know is this has been a bad year and it is making me crazy!

[TheWife]

I am very frustrated with public schools right now! My son will start K this year, my first kid in school, and I'm just furious w/ the school systems! In our area, the gov't spends $7500 a year per kid to go to school. only *$500* of that is actually in classroom expenses, like for the building, the teacher and other school staff, and the materials. The other $7000 is spent at the district level, and like the gov't, there are WAY too many people on staff at the district. Why on earth should SO much money be going to the district and so little being spent on the actual child? You may think it HAS to be that way in order for the schools to be able to run properly, WRONG. The charter and private schools do not have districts, they each operate individually, with no district support. And the tests score for the kids in those schools are far better than the public scores. Amazing that they can do that, without $7000 going to district support.

The school that my son is zoned for, is 41% non-english speaking students, and their UPASS (the state test) scores are in the 60's, whereas the public schools with smaller percentages of non-english speaking students, have higher scores, for example, the school with 4% non-english speakers, has a UPASS score of 93%, the highest in the county. The charter and private schools do not allow non-english speaking students into the schools, because they do not want to hold up a class of english speakers, and their UPASS scores are all in the high 80's and low 90's. I just do not feel good about sending my son to a school where only 60% of the kids end up proficient in the skills they are taught.

The problem though, is that we got on every lottery list for every charter school with in a 20 mile radius, and we didn't win one single spot. He's on a waiting list, at the number 5 spot for a school that's a 15 minute drive for me, for the ones that are closer, he's numbers 32 and 64. Most of the charter schools have waiting lists over 100 students long. What does that tell you about the general opinion of public schools around here?

I also can't believe how many things I have heard from parents about the "rules" at public schools. For one, they are in a union, so it's hard to fire them of course. My Uncle-in-law is a principal, and finally just paid a teacher his retirement and all future wages, to be able to "let him go", because he had reports and allegations of assaulting the children, but it was easier to pay him to leave then it would be to go through the district's process of investigation and fighting the union to have him fired. How does that make sense? And they have all these stupid rules like kids that bring lunches from home can NOT use a napkin from the cafeteria! Not that a napkin is a big deal, but it's just proof of the schools spending more time making rules, than they do actually caring for and taking care of our children! If a kid comes up to you with food all over his face, are you REALLY going to say they can't have a napkin because they didn't pay for a school lunch? Actually, yes, that's what they do. They send them to the bathroom to wash their face and hands. Cause I guess using a paper towel in the bathroom is somehow better than taking a napkin in the cafeteria. What a waste!

They also made it a rule that the teachers can not physically touch the children in ANY way. They can't put an arm around them if they are crying, they can't put a hand on their shoulder to give them encouragement, they can't hold a students hand to cross a street. They can not touch them at all, out of love or out of discipline, like pulling a student off of another one in a fight. Please tell me how this makes sense? I can understand not wanting a teacher hugging Jr. High students or something, but geez, in 1st grade, where things are scary and new, and they sometimes need an arm around them for comfort? Or if they are in a fight, you just have to "talk them off of each other"??? What the heck?

Anyway, so I, too, am disturbed by the public schools, and I tried so hard to get him to a charter school. Do you have any in your area, they are free! I was so excited when our Governor passed a law to give each household, up to $3K, based on income, in vouchers for private schooling. The private school is soooo nice! They teach Spanish and Music and Art, the public schools do not! They don't have a specific religious denomination, but they start each morning with prayer, and they spend the first 5 minutes teaching patriotism and faith. They cost $3400, and we qualify for the entire $3K of the voucher, so we'd only have to pay $400 to get him in and they are holding him a spot! However, despite the law being passed, the state board of education has COMPLETELY refused to cooperate with the process of letting families apply for vouchers, and at this point it looks like it may not happen at all! I totally do NOT understand why they have the right to not comply with a LAW. They have been ordered into compliance by the State Attorney General and still refuse and the issue is now at the State Supreme Court. If they don't comply with this law and allow the vouchers, or if 5 people don't drop out of the other charter school that we are on the list for, I may have no choice but to send my son to a public school, where 40% don't speak english, and only 60% will be proficient. My advice to you, if your public schools are anything like this, then send your kids to the Catholic school! It won't hurt them to learn morals and values and that doesn't mean he has to feel like he should be Catholic, but I plan on doing everything I can to keep my kid out of this gov't mess of education!

[Bigsweetie]

Originally Posted by lucky81698

I'm not looking to make my son more religious (I am pretty much the opposite of that!) but from reading some of the info I got from the school it does seem like they re-enforce values and morals that are taught at home. After seeing some of the kids in my son's school, it seems like no one is teaching them these things at all. For instance one kid that lives near my parents, (both of his siblings have been arrested for drug dealing, robbery, assault etc..) told my son that I was a "nig**r fuc*er". Now where does a third grader get that stuff from? This kid and his merry band of junior deliquents in training have no parental supervision whatsoever. I have talked to the school, they know who these kids are but there is not really too much they can or will do to disipline them. Oh wow, they have to stay in for recess, big punishment. It seems to me like no one is held accountable for their actions anymore, kids don't seem to be taught that anymore. It's very depressing to see.

When I took the tour of the Catholic school, we walked by the guidance office. The lady came out and I talked to her a minute. She told me that bullying is everywhere, but they seem to have a better handle on it than the other schools. As soon as they are made aware of problems they take action. She said an older boy had been picking on a couple younger kids on the bus. When they found out, he was kicked off the bus for 2 weeks and his parents had to drive him. Now he is a model busrider. Anytime a kid gets in trouble they are sent to the guidance office and made to call their parents while the guidance counselor is there. She said this new rule has reduced the incidents and seems to be very traumatic for kids to do. She told me of a girl that had been out sick and came back to school and was teased by how she looked by a boy in class. The teacher heard and he was immediately sent to the guidance office.

I looked at their rankings on the paperwork they gave me and the internet and it seems to be a good school. I have heard nothing but complaints about the school my son is in right now from just about every other parent I've talked to. Most say the school is not good, the pricinpal has no control at all over the school and it is basically a free for all at lunch and recess.

I would love to send my son the non religious private school here, but it is $15,000 a year! Yikes! I would never consider home schooling him at all. I don't feel I would be qualified to do so. I talked to my sister in law about that, she is a teacher and very much against it.

My husband was very much against sending him to the Catholic school but now I think he is getting fed up with all the nonsense that goes on and the lack of learning this year. All I know is this has been a bad year and it is making me crazy!

If you feel this particular Catholic school is right for your child, then there's your answer.

But to go back to your original question, I don't necessarily think Catholic schools "in general" have "better" kids than any other school, or necessarily have the same discipline styles as the Catholic school you've selected! My DH has a speech impediment and was not only ridiculed by his classmates, but also by his teachers! Who, by the way, WERE NUNS!!! And a couple of years ago, a 1st grader in a Catholic school brought a gun to school and started shooting! She had been a "discipline case" since the beginning of the school year!

I don't have anything against Catholic schools, really I don't. But I think it's wrong to generalize. I happen to live in a area with a very good public school district. But not far away are plenty of horrible public schools.

As for the mouths on the kids in your child's school! That's a product of poor parenting at home first and foremost and ALSO poor discipline at school. I don't blame you for wanting to remove your child from that situation, but you may be surprised once you get into the Catholic school as well. Only time will tell on that one!

[Adreamer's_wfe]

I would have a problem with a school that has 12 4th gr. classrooms - that is crazy! There is a lot of research about the effectiveness of really large ELE schools - basically, small schools are better for kids at that age. For many of the reasons that others have listed, more community, etc.

I am not suprised that there were so many "problem" students in the class - why? Male teacher. People tend to request them because they want a "male" influence for their child when there is one lacking at home. Also, the teacher had to teach to the "middle" - not the high or the low - but the middle, if there were a lot of problems in the class, the "middle" might have been pretty low, which is why your son was not very concerned about his work. We had the same problem this year with DD in first grade. She had a 100% on all pretest - why prepare when she already knew the answer?

Teacher reputation - I ignore that. I am teacher and I know a LOT of highly recommended teachers that I would not want my children to have as well as teachers with terrible reputations that I think are outstanding teachers. Schools are really political - reputations have less to do with teaching ability than social connections.

I do feel your pain, I am really unhappy with DD's first grade teacher. I have never believed in requesting a teacher, but I put some thought into it after this year. I am a teacher, so I tried to work with her teacher, we ended up in an email war, that I abandoned. I ended up requesting testing to prove that DD was at the reading level I said she should be - ah, yeah, I have a clue I am a reading teacher!!

DD went to a private Catholic school before we had the triplets, and I would love to have her back there. No way we can swing it with 5 kids though.

Socially it is a problem. The kids in our neighborhood that go to private school are kind of left out. They do not go to school with the rest of the kids, or ride the bus, etc. so they get left out of some things.

It is a hard choice to make - you certainly want what is best for your child. Just because you put your child into a private school does not mean you have to keep him there. I know parents worry about being established in a school and having friends, but with that large of a school, that really would not be as big of an issue.

[lucky81698]

Originally Posted by Adreamer's_wfe

I would have a problem with a school that has 12 4th gr. classrooms - that is crazy! There is a lot of research about the effectiveness of really large ELE schools - basically, small schools are better for kids at that age. For many of the reasons that others have listed, more community, etc.

I am not suprised that there were so many "problem" students in the class - why? Male teacher. People tend to request them because they want a "male" influence for their child when there is one lacking at home. Also, the teacher had to teach to the "middle" - not the high or the low - but the middle, if there were a lot of problems in the class, the "middle" might have been pretty low, which is why your son was not very concerned about his work. We had the same problem this year with DD in first grade. She had a 100% on all pretest - why prepare when she already knew the answer?

Teacher reputation - I ignore that. I am teacher and I know a LOT of highly recommended teachers that I would not want my children to have as well as teachers with terrible reputations that I think are outstanding teachers. Schools are really political - reputations have less to do with teaching ability than social connections.

I do feel your pain, I am really unhappy with DD's first grade teacher. I have never believed in requesting a teacher, but I put some thought into it after this year. I am a teacher, so I tried to work with her teacher, we ended up in an email war, that I abandoned. I ended up requesting testing to prove that DD was at the reading level I said she should be - ah, yeah, I have a clue I am a reading teacher!!

DD went to a private Catholic school before we had the triplets, and I would love to have her back there. No way we can swing it with 5 kids though.

Socially it is a problem. The kids in our neighborhood that go to private school are kind of left out. They do not go to school with the rest of the kids, or ride the bus, etc. so they get left out of some things.

It is a hard choice to make - you certainly want what is best for your child. Just because you put your child into a private school does not mean you have to keep him there. I know parents worry about being established in a school and having friends, but with that large of a school, that really would not be as big of an issue.

There are about 750 kids at his school, which is 3rd, 4th and 5th grade. I was wrong, there are 11 classes of each grade, not 12. About 10 years ago or so there was such a population decline in this area that decided to consolidate all of the neighborhood elementary schools into a primary school (K-2), intermediate (3-5), middle (6-8)and then the highs school. There used to be around 6 neighborhood elementary schools that went from K-6, where there were usually only 2 or maybe 3 classes per grade. The lunch and recess is a a zoo, each grade goes at it's own time, the entire grade! There just aren't enough monitors, I feel, to keep control over that many kids at once.

His teacher from second grade told alot of us that this guy he has now is a great teacher (her son had him and loved him and he learned alot, mostly math and science type stuff and she really felt he would be a good fit with him). The guidance counselor admitted that they screwed up by putting that many problem kids in the class and blamed it on the lack of info they got from the primary school. I wasn't even going to bother requesting a teacher since I didn't in 2nd grade and got a decent one. But she was adamant about requesting this guy because she said there were several teachers at this school that are not so good.

There really aren't any kids on our street except for a girl in second grade. The kids are all either alot younger or older, so it wouldn't be like he was the only one of his neighbors not going to the public school. I have been thinking alot about the social issues too though. He gets along with pretty much everyone at school, except the creeps like the one I described earlier, but it's not like he has tons of friends calling or going over each other's houses or anything. Plus, most of his friends will be playing football next year, and you know how involved kids end up getting with that. I am absolutely dead against kids that young playing tackle football, so he will not be playing even if he wanted to, besides he has had 2 surgeries on his ankle and will most likely need another. The public school puts such a big emphasis on sports and the kids who are good in them seem to get to break alot of rules. I'm afraid if he stays at the public school he will end up feeling left out from the kids who are his "friends" now anyway.

This whole situation has turned me into a basketcase! I keep thinking no matter what choice we make, I will somehow be doing the wrong thing. I think now Bill is really leaning towards the Catholic school, maybe I can let him decide!!!!

Thanks for your opinion, I was hoping you would reply since you are a teacher. It must be tough to see your kids with teachers that you are not happy with. I know it drives my sister-in-law crazy and my niece is only in K!

[lucky81698]

Originally Posted by Bigsweetie

If you feel this particular Catholic school is right for your child, then there's your answer.

But to go back to your original question, I don't necessarily think Catholic schools "in general" have "better" kids than any other school, or necessarily have the same discipline styles as the Catholic school you've selected! My DH has a speech impediment and was not only ridiculed by his classmates, but also by his teachers! Who, by the way, WERE NUNS!!! And a couple of years ago, a 1st grader in a Catholic school brought a gun to school and started shooting! She had been a "discipline case" since the beginning of the school year!

I don't have anything against Catholic schools, really I don't. But I think it's wrong to generalize. I happen to live in a area with a very good public school district. But not far away are plenty of horrible public schools.

As for the mouths on the kids in your child's school! That's a product of poor parenting at home first and foremost and ALSO poor discipline at school. I don't blame you for wanting to remove your child from that situation, but you may be surprised once you get into the Catholic school as well. Only time will tell on that one!

I guess my thinking is that, at least in our area, if you send your kids to Catholic school you are not only paying the tuition there but the school taxes for the district you live in as well, so you expect your kids to not be a "problem" at the school or you would just be wasting your money. And the same goes for the "victims" of any type of bullying or class disruptions, parents paying the school to teach not to be a babysitter/referee to a couple of disruptive brats! So we will be paying around $4500 with the combination as opposed to $1800. Depending on the value of your house, you could be paying alot more as well.

I believe most of the teachers if not all are regular people not nuns. I know Bill has told me the nuns in his high school were pretty much miserable you know whats! Personally, I have a bad taste in my mouth regarding the Catholic church for alot of reasons, mainly seeing some things in DH's family that I won't get into. I realize that I am generalizing things and that not all Catholics or nuns for that matter are like what I have seen, so I don't "hold it against" anyone who is Catholic. Kinda hard to explain I guess. I'm gonna see if I can talk to some parents of kids there and see what they think. I think one of the boys on Billy's baseball team goes there.

Thanks for your opinion. It was so much easier when he was little and changing his diaper...enjoy those times with Emily, they go by way too fast!

Jan

[lucky81698]

Originally Posted by TheWife

I am very frustrated with public schools right now! My son will start K this year, my first kid in school, and I'm just furious w/ the school systems! In our area, the gov't spends $7500 a year per kid to go to school. only *$500* of that is actually in classroom expenses, like for the building, the teacher and other school staff, and the materials. The other $7000 is spent at the district level, and like the gov't, there are WAY too many people on staff at the district. Why on earth should SO much money be going to the district and so little being spent on the actual child? You may think it HAS to be that way in order for the schools to be able to run properly, WRONG. The charter and private schools do not have districts, they each operate individually, with no district support. And the tests score for the kids in those schools are far better than the public scores. Amazing that they can do that, without $7000 going to district support.

The school that my son is zoned for, is 41% non-english speaking students, and their UPASS (the state test) scores are in the 60's, whereas the public schools with smaller percentages of non-english speaking students, have higher scores, for example, the school with 4% non-english speakers, has a UPASS score of 93%, the highest in the county. The charter and private schools do not allow non-english speaking students into the schools, because they do not want to hold up a class of english speakers, and their UPASS scores are all in the high 80's and low 90's. I just do not feel good about sending my son to a school where only 60% of the kids end up proficient in the skills they are taught.

The problem though, is that we got on every lottery list for every charter school with in a 20 mile radius, and we didn't win one single spot. He's on a waiting list, at the number 5 spot for a school that's a 15 minute drive for me, for the ones that are closer, he's numbers 32 and 64. Most of the charter schools have waiting lists over 100 students long. What does that tell you about the general opinion of public schools around here?

I also can't believe how many things I have heard from parents about the "rules" at public schools. For one, they are in a union, so it's hard to fire them of course. My Uncle-in-law is a principal, and finally just paid a teacher his retirement and all future wages, to be able to "let him go", because he had reports and allegations of assaulting the children, but it was easier to pay him to leave then it would be to go through the district's process of investigation and fighting the union to have him fired. How does that make sense? And they have all these stupid rules like kids that bring lunches from home can NOT use a napkin from the cafeteria! Not that a napkin is a big deal, but it's just proof of the schools spending more time making rules, than they do actually caring for and taking care of our children! If a kid comes up to you with food all over his face, are you REALLY going to say they can't have a napkin because they didn't pay for a school lunch? Actually, yes, that's what they do. They send them to the bathroom to wash their face and hands. Cause I guess using a paper towel in the bathroom is somehow better than taking a napkin in the cafeteria. What a waste!

They also made it a rule that the teachers can not physically touch the children in ANY way. They can't put an arm around them if they are crying, they can't put a hand on their shoulder to give them encouragement, they can't hold a students hand to cross a street. They can not touch them at all, out of love or out of discipline, like pulling a student off of another one in a fight. Please tell me how this makes sense? I can understand not wanting a teacher hugging Jr. High students or something, but geez, in 1st grade, where things are scary and new, and they sometimes need an arm around them for comfort? Or if they are in a fight, you just have to "talk them off of each other"??? What the heck?

Anyway, so I, too, am disturbed by the public schools, and I tried so hard to get him to a charter school. Do you have any in your area, they are free! I was so excited when our Governor passed a law to give each household, up to $3K, based on income, in vouchers for private schooling. The private school is soooo nice! They teach Spanish and Music and Art, the public schools do not! They don't have a specific religious denomination, but they start each morning with prayer, and they spend the first 5 minutes teaching patriotism and faith. They cost $3400, and we qualify for the entire $3K of the voucher, so we'd only have to pay $400 to get him in and they are holding him a spot! However, despite the law being passed, the state board of education has COMPLETELY refused to cooperate with the process of letting families apply for vouchers, and at this point it looks like it may not happen at all! I totally do NOT understand why they have the right to not comply with a LAW. They have been ordered into compliance by the State Attorney General and still refuse and the issue is now at the State Supreme Court. If they don't comply with this law and allow the vouchers, or if 5 people don't drop out of the other charter school that we are on the list for, I may have no choice but to send my son to a public school, where 40% don't speak english, and only 60% will be proficient. My advice to you, if your public schools are anything like this, then send your kids to the Catholic school! It won't hurt them to learn morals and values and that doesn't mean he has to feel like he should be Catholic, but I plan on doing everything I can to keep my kid out of this gov't mess of education!

Wow Michelle what a mess it is in your state. I can see why you would want to avoid the public schools in your area. I can't believe they don't teach music and art or Spanish (especially if there are so many non-English speaking students). At least the public schools here do teach those, in fact the Primary school was actually quite good, that's why I'm so disgusted this year. There are a couple of Charter schools but they are not really all that close to where we live. I hope it works out for you and you will be able to get your son into one. I really never would have thought that Utah would have so many non-English speaking people that it would effect the school systems.

Jan