With or Without?

[christykay]

Originally Posted by Doogie

This might step on a few toes or might save a marriage or two so please DO NOT take this personal or as targeted towards anyone in particular because it's not.

I know quite a few guys that have gotten divorced over the years. A lot of us spend a lot of time in the cockpit talking about all things 'non aviation'.

I will say, after about 15 years of doing the airline thing, most guys that admit having strayed from their wives are generally those that have wives that went from "being the girl that I married" to "my kids mom".

I think the idea that kids can fix or solidify a marriage is "Walt Disney".

They can make an already strong marriage stronger in some cases, make a strong marriage weaker (like in the above example) or take a weak marriage and completely snuff it out.

Kids have nothing to do with marriage because your marriage is between you and your husband and you need to remember that.

A man's emotions (marriage, family, love) are a completely separate from his natural urge to procreate (lust) coupled in with their irrepressible, but mostly managed by social norms (and easily availability of porn!), urge for sexual variety (a single lion and a pride of lionesses). Those are all three mutually exclusive parts of any man's brain. Me, that guy across the street, brothers, grandfathers, husbands, uncles, dads, etc.

Think of commitment to family (marriage/family/love), irrepressible urge to procreate and his animalistic need for sexual variety as three separate, non-interchangeable jars that need to be kept in balance.

What solidifies a marriage from my own personal experience and listening to years and years of "my ex-wife, blah blah blah" stories? A good relationship. Personal suggestion? Be 'your kids mom' to your children, but remember to be 'your husband's wife' to your hubby because he married **you** and not your children's mom.

I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but maybe it'll help.

All I can say is WOW. Spoken like a man without children.

[christykay]

Originally Posted by roz

Having children becomes part of the relationship with your husband, it doesn't take the anchor from it. It just becomes part of the support you give each other and enhances the overall relationship. You are creating something together and it's a very important job. For me, while there was added work, it was easier emotionally. Having a child made me focus on someone else and realize that I'm not the most important person in my life! It made me develop patience. To have someone totally trust you and accept you for who you are is daunting--you have to earn the right to have that continue as the child gets older. It's not for everyone, but I'm sure glad it was for us!

I agree 100% and I am also so glad that it was for us 4x over. Unless you are a Mom or a Dad you have absolutely NO idea how rewarding this role is. You can speculate and listen to what others have to say, but until you have a little one calling you Mommy or Daddy you have aboslutely no idea.

[LauraL]

Originally Posted by Bigsweetie

As for the old excuse "we had kids and my wife changed, that's why I strayed". I think that's a lame excuse. Usually what happened in those cases, IMO, is that YES, the wife changed, but the husband wasn't ready for the change to begin with. I think many men go along with having kids because that's what the wife wants. Then when it happens and the wife changes, he's not ready for it. IMO, his commitment to his wife wasn't strong enough to begin with.

Wow. I never knew this was a common excuse! Nothing relavent to my relationship with my husband - but this is EXACTLY my dad's excuse for his divorce with my mom!

Thank you for the posts about these supposed "women changing after children." I know I was subconciously concerned about this, because I guess I kind of believed my dad. Now I can see that this is a common "reason" for many relationship troubles. Nothing to do with having children at all. Just a weak relationship from the get go for one reason or another.

[skyrocketocelot]

Originally Posted by Bigsweetie

I think many men go along with having kids because that's what the wife wants. Then when it happens and the wife changes, he's not ready for it. IMO, his commitment to his wife wasn't strong enough to begin with.

I absolutely agree. I know too many people who grew up in two different houses because Dad couldn't handle the little additions. And it's affected a lot of lives for the worse... No offense to anyone, just stating my opinion, but if the couple decides to have kids and she has a feeling that he's not totally on-board, it's purely selfishness on her part and she's asking for trouble to go ahead and go for it. And it's purely selfishness on his part if he knows he has qualms and doesn't speak up and say he's not ready. It's like getting married knowing down in your gut that it's not going to work... just my own thoughts.

[Bigsweetie]

Originally Posted by LauraL

Wow. I never knew this was a common excuse! Nothing relavent to my relationship with my husband - but this is EXACTLY my dad's excuse for his divorce with my mom!

Thank you for the posts about these supposed "women changing after children." I know I was subconciously concerned about this, because I guess I kind of believed my dad. Now I can see that this is a common "reason" for many relationship troubles. Nothing to do with having children at all. Just a weak relationship from the get go for one reason or another.

Having kids DOES change you! It SHOULD! But it should change the father as well as the mother and I think alot of times the men (and sometimes women) aren't ready for the change.

Men who "go along" with having kids and aren't truly ready, once the child is born, sometimes step back from their new family and let the woman take on most of the role as parent. And then when she realizes she doesn't have a "partner" in this new family gets angry and resentful. To which the new father says "you've changed!". Well, no kidding! LOL!

If both people approach parenthood TOGETHER and enjoy the experience as a cohesive unit, then your DH will look at you as not only his lovely wife, but with a newfound respect as his child's mother.

I watch Eric with Emily sometimes and I love him even more than before because of what a terrific father he is to our daughter and vice versa!

It's also important to not shift ALL of your focus onto the kids. Date nights are important as well, but if a husband is "threatened" by the new addition, then there's a fundamental lack of maturity on his part.

[scissorhands]

Yeah bigsweetie, well said. My 2 cents, children,elderly & pets have to come first...why ?Because they depend on responsible adults to care for them. That is what a family structure is all about. Any one who cheats on a spouse will cheat on anyone, personal or business,it simply is just bad character. Anyone who cheats on a spouse because they changed into a loving mother or father, is plainly a poor excuse for infidelity. I won't go on because I find myself getting angry. I guess thats why I work with dogs all day, people I don't understand. At least I can tell if a dog is going to bite me immediatly.

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by LauraL

You're a Pilot's Wife (or SO). You're lucky enough to get all the good and bad that go with the title.

My question:

Easier WITH children or easier WITHOUT?

Isn't life in general easier without?

*snicker*

I kid, I KID!

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by Doogie

A man's emotions (marriage, family, love) are a completely separate from his natural urge to procreate (lust) coupled in with their irrepressible, but mostly managed by social norms (and easily availability of porn!), urge for sexual variety (a single lion and a pride of lionesses). Those are all three mutually exclusive parts of any man's brain. Me, that guy across the street, brothers, grandfathers, husbands, uncles, dads, etc.

Foul! Objection! disagree!

Not EVERY MAN'S BRAIN has the "natural" and irrepressible but manageable urge for sexual variety. This is a myth (albeit a convenient one) that pigeonholes males and turns them into mindless animals operating on instinct (when they're not being "managed" by societal restrictions).

"I couldn't help it, baby. I am but a man, after all, and men have needs."

Nope nope nope.



However, I do tend to side with the rest of what you said about children and how they might or might not affect a relationship, and that the WORST reason to have kids is to "solidify" anything. Your marriage should probably be damn solid before you think about getting prego.

[Shar]

Without kids is easier because it's just you...BUT I don't think many want their old life back after children or even remember what it was like before kids. They give you something to laugh and smile about EVERY day. Although I must say it is tiring to be the "only parent" when DH is gone, I also think that the days he has off are awesome for our family. A lot of fathers only see their kids from 6 or 7 at night until bedtime M-F. When my hubby is home we spend time with the kids all day. I think he actually ends up with a lot of quality time with them. Like some of the others said, it's what you make of it and it does make you appreciate what you have more

[amelia]

Like others have said, life is easier without kids, but for me, so much more boring. Having the 2 kids has been so amazing. DH and I both agree, its the best thing to ever happen to us. He is an amazing dad and it makes me love him all that much more when I see them together. I think kids made our marriage stronger. There are times when its been hard on our marriage, but we've worked on it and we make sure we give each other husband and wife time. I personally think my life is so much better with the kids.