To have/not have kids.. how in the world do you make up your

[Kristie]

Mind????

I figured I'd bring this to a new thread since i didn't want to take away from Ambers "New Baby On The Way" thread...

Barbara said "Doug's saying he'll have them if you want them... is that new, or has he always said that? Maybe he's worried about what kind of dad he'll be & wants you to decide that it's a good thing & reassure him that it will all be ok, and that he'll be a great dad. My DH wanted kids, but he was still nervous since both sets of our parents suck, so neither of us had a lot of good examples to draw from. One thing is that we had a LOT of examples of what NOT to do. We aren't our parents.

You can tell me to go leap off a bridge... but from what I've been reading you write lately, it's my opinion that YOU WANT KIDS! I think you'll be great - you seem so caring, supportive & positive. That's a good majority of what kids need, right there. And you can handle the part time single parent thing, too. And hey, you have us!"

and then Michelle added "Kristie I have to agree that you have been talking about kids a lot, and I hope this doesn't come out wrong--it's fine if you talk about them all day long!!! But it seems to me that it's been MORE lately, so I was also wondering if you were really starting to want to, or at least thinking about if you wanted to. You can tell me to mind my own business if you want but it was an observation. I have to say, to me at least, I think it's very possible to get older and older and regret NOT having kids, but I can not IMAGINE having kids and regretting it!!!! Some people probably do, if they weren't mature enough or if it was an accident I guess, but even in those cases I don't think those people would ever wish to actually not have the kid, KWIM? So what my point is, you might find yourself 45, childless, and really wishing you had kids, but I don't think you will ever find your self 45, with a kid or two, and wishing you didn't have any! And the longer you wait, the harder it gets. I have a friend that had no intenetion of ever having kids, got pg on the pill, and while she doesn't want any more then that because of her age, she can not imagine not having her baby and she is so glad it happened!

Oh, and BTW--just for your info--women that have had a child by the age of 30 reduce the risk of ovarian cancer by over 60%, women that have one by 35 reduce it by like 40%, and so on. And women that have had 4 or more also reduce it by over 60%. Or something like that. Sorry I am too lazy to find the actual numbers"
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Thanks girls! I would never say "mind your own business" or "jump off a bridge" because I value constructive critisizm and openness in thinking/opinions...you just never know when/if someone will say something that gives you that "that totally makes sense, why didn't i think of that" feeling! so - THANKS for the input!! really!! it is good to know that you feel comfortable enough talk and let it ALL hang out! I feel good in knowing that I have you guys to open my eyes sometimes (we all help eachother with that don't we?!)! haha [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I have been talking kids more often, I'm just still not sure I want them...because....

for one thing, doug's always said that, he'd rather not be a dad after all that he's learned in the past few years....big "block" is mainly from NOT seeing or knowing that many "good" parental examples (my parents weren't that great, his were ok), we don't know many couples that have kids and the ones we do know live outside of town, so we're never really around kids (we currently do have some friends in town that are pregnant though)...he flys with some pilots that think going to work is a "vacation" away from home.. he also flys with pilots that have nothing but their kids to talk about and he doesn't want that either (he says: people need to keep their hobbies too when they have kids) and he has things he wants to do besides having kids (as do I).. so when he says "if you want kids, we'll have kids" that's what he means. Having kids doesn't wreak havoc on him like it does me because he doesn't have to worry about being prenant and about being the mommy (he's admitted to that)...in his eyes, he's not the one "having" the kid, I am.. so it's no big emotional roller coaster for him which makes it even easier for him to say "if you want them, we'll have them, it's really up to you"...so with that attitude, I'm all up in the air.

so if I were to go up to him and tell him we're having kids or we're expecting -> he'd probably just shrug his shoulders and go "ok" as if it's no big deal...but then he'd probably get really nervous with the whole "I didn't really want to be a dad" concept.. cuz he really kinda doesn't want kids (only if I want them)...

but the reason I'm thinking about it more is because every friend (except 2) I've got (including my sister) have kids or are currently having kids. i'm turning 35 next week and I always told myself when I was young(er) that the baby making stops at 35 because of the amnio test and the increase in breast cancer rates and downs syndrome....

Granted, Doug and I both know that if we had kids, they'd probably be some good looking kids (with the mixed colors)...plus we KNOW we'd be good parents because of the way we think, do things, or morals/values - we've seen enough bad examples to know what not to do etc etc...

I just can't make up my mind based on the "if you want kids, we'll have kids" because I honestly don't want to bring a kid into the world if dad doesn't really want to be a dad even if i do *think* i want kids... and I'm not that sure I'd be good with single parenting and with our lives as pilot wives, that's exactly what it would be like?! right?! I wouldn't mind quitting my job though! hahahaha

People say "don't you want kids so you can have someone come visit you when your old" and "so you can leave something behind"... well, kids don't really come visit you when your old, it's more like they *have* to take care of you... you become more of a burden to them IMO (just by watching my own family as they get old(er))...and what if the kid turns doesn't turn out to be a good person?

so considering how i was brought up (you know parents - they tell ya "you'll grow up and have a family of your own someday"...)...and then thinking that when the kids are teens, they hate ya and your grandkids never come to visit you anyways..and if you have one, you have to have 2 because kids need siblings (which is what i would defintely do)...blah blah blah...we just keep thinking "nah, we're not gonna have kids"...

see my predicament? one things for sure, i need to give myself some peace of mind and just make a decision - which today.. it's still no unless it just "happens"!! hahaha

[MQAAord]

Ahhh, I see your predicament!

It really can seem like I'm a single parent sometimes, but it's all in what you're used to! I don't mind it really, when Bill's not here I get SO much more done around the house!

There is the chance that he could be gone and miss a 'milestone'. But that can happen to anyone at any job. My old roommate Jen missed her baby's first steps while she was a work at her desk job! Bill was the one who found Alex's first tooth, and last Tuesday we were both watching as Alex took his first tottering little steps.

As far as not having many other 'Mommy' friends, there are lots of places online to meet other mommies, and even to find other mommies in your area that you can meet with in person. Our local park district has a playgroup that residents can join, and you'd be surprised how many parents you meet just walking around the neighborhood with a stroller! We had other friends in the Chicago area with kids, we'd all lived near each other near ORD, and had worked together at Eagle, we figured we'd always be together. Well, things happen, people transferred, got furloughed, lost their medicals.........and while we all still see each other at weddings & such, we don't all live right by each other anymore. So when we moved out here to the suburbs, we didn't really know anyone. But I've found a playgroup, and met people while I've been out walking with Alex, and my online Mommy chat board has helped a great deal. Those mommies all have older toddlers, so I can ask what to expect from people who've already been through it! There's even two other babies on the board who were born the same month as Alex. The resources for networking with other moms are definently out there!

And Stan (R2F from JC) and his wife had an amnio last week, I asked him how it was and if it was a icky as I'd thought it would be. His reply was "No, it really wasn't that bad at all, and when it was done my wife said "Is that it?", all she felt was a slight pinch, like someone pulling a hair out." Apparently the anticipation of the procedure is the worst part, and the actual procedure itself isn't that bad! I guess it's like the epidural. I'd always not wanted one, because I couldn't stand the thought of "some big needle being stuck in my spine!" Turns out that's not really how it works! I learned in my lamaze class exactly what an epidural is, where it goes, and once I actually SAW the tube they use, it was like "Umm, that's it? Really?" I did the epi, and will do it again!

[TheWife]

Corbin and I didn't have the greatest parenting examples either. Some really great parents can come from kids who had bad parents. (Um, did that make sense?) I think Corbin and I are pretty good parents because of how things were for us. (Wanna talk bad examples--both my mom and dad have been married 4 times each, yikes!) The fact that you recognize what you didn't like about your parents and your childhoods, means you can change how you raise your children. The problems usually come from people who "don't get it" and it isn't until 10 years of therapy when they start tracing their roots back to their childhood problems that it dawns on them that they have become their parents. So THAT part of your fear I think you have covered.

As for Doug not being anxious to be a dad, but just being neutral. I think a LOT of guys are that way, but they all love their kids! I think it's a guy thing to not have the built in desire automatically. Maybe some where deep down inside of Dougie he really wants them but doesn't want to be the reason you change your mind? (Or maybe I'm crazy.... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) YOu can still have hobbies, time away from the kids etc. You don't have to lose yourself when you have children. I really like some advice I heard in a book by Dr. Rosemund. He says your #1 priority HAS to be your marriage NOT your children. If you aren't taking care of your marriage, and then yourselves, then your children are not going to get the best of you. So many people do take parenting on with the attitude that the kids are the #1 priority. And that is when you lose yourself. You know Corbin still has his Xbox hobbies. And he golfs and stuff. And I have my pictures and crafts and net time. I don't feel like I have lost myself at all.

Some people don't like that they can't just go out and go to a bar or something, but ya know what? Nothing has completed me more than having some one I'd rather stay home for! And that's how I feel about Caleb. Work SUCKS monkey nuts compared to being a mom. Sure there are small moments here and there where you want to give it up, but whenever I hear stories of my friends at work, I am always like "I can not imagine me still 'working' like that! A bad day with Caleb is better than the best day at the office IMO!" Maybe that's because I didn't have a job I looooooooved, but I just was sick of dealing with bosses, and the general public and all the stress and the driving and the deadlines. It's pretty cool to me to sit home and if I don't WANT to do anything but play with my baby all day long, that's my own choice and no one is telling me I missed a deadline or I am going to get fired or something! (Can you tell I love it? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

I can't really speak for parenting in the aviation lifestyle since we aren't really there yet, but from the pilots that are parents that I have talked to, it ends up even in the end. They do miss things, but they have all said that they feel they have more quality time than if it was a M-F job.

About your age-yeah, it's probably better to make a decision sooner instead of later. If you are in overall good health and have a good family history that will help reduce the increased risks that come with being over 35. What if------you become a "not not" (not trying, not preventing) for a year, and if it doesn't happen maybe do take permanent measures to prevent it so you don't find yourself accidently pg at 50? lol. You could not chart, not pay attention to your cycles, not do any temping or anything, not instigate sex just because you think it's ovu time, but just completely go with the flow? Maybe it would happen in a month, maybe it would not happen at all. Is that too "undecided" for you? If I REALLY couldn't decide I think that's what I would do, kind of leave it up to fate (not that I really believe totally in fate or destiny, but YKWIM)

Ok well I don't know if any of that was helpful or just more confusing, obviously I am on the pro-child side [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I tink of course the bottom line is that if it doesn't feel right don't do it, but if you are just neutral on it, well, maybe take a chance and see what happens. Good luck with whatever you decide. And if you stick with no kids---hey there are always more cats out there!!

[MQAAord]

[quote:e843cddfa5="TheWife"]Work SUCKS monkey nuts
[/quote:e843cddfa5]

OMG You're cracking me up! Monkey Nuts?

I was going to post some other advice, but I've forgotten now what it was!

[TheWife]

Sorry Amber! LOL

I had some more thoughts--there is always adoption and foster parenting if you do get closer to 40 and don't want to be pg but still want to have children. There are so many unwanted babies and toddlers. You could even save yourself several grand by skipping the pg (no hospital bill) and by not needing cribs, strollers, etc. if you adopted or fostered a toddler or older child. It might not be the same as having your own, and maybe this is a bad way of looking at it--but being a foster parent to a kid could sort of give you a "trial" run, to see if it's something you think you'd like to permanently.

[Bigsweetie]

I couldn't help but chime in on this one.

Kristie,
It sounds like you and Doug might have some reservations about children because you think that you wouldn't be able to travel as much or do some of the other hobbies that you both enjoy (at least that's how I read it).

Do you think that you would enjoy traveling with your children? Think of it as an opportunity to show them the world... all the places that you and Doug have enjoyed. And you could teach them another language, or Doug could teach them to fly someday, etc. No matter what you decide, make sure that children are an ENHANCEMENT of your lives together, not a hinderance. My DH's parents really viewed him more as a burden than anything else and it's really a shame.

I have confidence that you and Doug will make the best decision for the both of you. But I do think that you two would make excellent parents and would have a lot to offer a child.

Take care,

Tanya

[skibum515]

ok ok ok, I'll chime in too...This has been a rather interesting thread for me to read because it adresses some of my fears about having children one day (in like 8 or so years) anyway, Kristie, like everyone else has said i too think that you and doug would be great parents. As far as the traveling thing that Tanya mentioned, I wish my parents had taken me more places as a child/teenager. I have only traveled within the united states, (except for canada but that doesn't count cause i live 30 mins from it) and we took one family vacation to the domincan republic when i was a soph. in HS. I really wish we could have gone other places in the world, and i REALLY wish i had learned another language as a child because this italian class is killing me!! :? Don't forget too, that if you and doug need some "us" time without the kiddos there are always babysitters and if you need a weekend (or longer), send them to grandma's (or aunt's or whoever).

as a quick aside here, john and i were talking last night about what would be the #1 thing you want to teach your children. For both of us we decided on acceptance of other people/things/customs because once people have accepted others, a lot of hate and fear goes right out the window. (obviously it's not as easy as i'm making it out to be but i like to think that it can be done) anyway, i'm curious to see what you guys all think (or have done if you've got kiddies)

[Barbara]

There are some people that DO regret having kids, but I'm SURE they are few & far between. My mother is one of them. When I was young (...7 or 8, I guess) she said "If abortions were legal in 1969, you wouldn't be here today." Some things stick with you, even if they're said a long time ago. I'm sure she regretted saying it, and perhaps even regrets having felt that way, but ever since then, I never thought she DESERVED us. (My sister & I were good girls too, this wasn't something we had coming to us. We stuck together and turned out healthy & normal. End of drama.)

One good thing about growing up with a wacked parent, if you're smart & mature (and maybe wait to have kids until you're older than your parents were) you have more patience, a different perspective & tend not to repeat their mistakes. In comparison, you'll always be a better parent than them! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, ancient history aside, Kristie I can tell you are not that kind of person. Like Tanya suggested, you seem the sort to want to show your child(ren) the world. Myself, I've become a nervous nelly about travel. But my DD is just at that unreasonable age where travel with her is not pleasurable. It's just a phase, and it will end. (In fact, I'm hoping it will end by two weeks from now, since we have to fly for my neice's wedding. ) She's a toddler, she's supposed to be that way.

Michelle, that's a good point, that maybe Doug doesn't want to be responsible for her decision. I also agree that a LOT of guys are ambivilent to kids, even during pregnancy - UNTIL THEY'RE BORN. My own DH was that way, and we planned for our kids. They just get caught up in the logistics of having children: finances, college, living in a small house, needing a bigger car, all the financial burden is on him & his job, he's more disconnected from the pregnancy since it isn't happening inside of him, etc...

My feinds here have been asking me: "How are you doing it, with two kids and DH being gone?" I don't know, I just do it, what choice do I have? On his normal work schedule, it's not usually a problem, especially as we moved to his domicile and he's home more. Its only been a little tougher since we have a brand new baby & he's been gone so long for training, but that ends this week & it wasn't 'normal' circumstances. Now that our move is over & we're all settled in, when DH is home his days off are all ours. (He hasn't figured out how to juggle two kids alone when he's home & needs to make himself a sandwich, but that's another story. Hunger is the mother of multi-tasking, I say!)

And the amnio was no big deal for me, either. The waiting (for the results) was worse than the procedure. I love all that stuff, so I actually thought it was pretty interesting.

And you're right, Kristie. Your children will be gorgeous. I love blended babies, how they can have wavy brown hair with natural blond highlights and flawless cafe au lait skin. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TheWife]

Ok Krisitie I'll give you a reason to NOT have them. Ya know how your cats go poop in a cat box? Well that kind of spoils you. Kids don't do that. You think you have it all good when they go in diapers. Then they get to the age where they take their diapers off and you have to duct tape them on (this is true, I am not making it up). Then they get past that and you think you are all good again. Then they decide they want to be potty trained and so you let them go naked all day because, well, it's just easier than undressing them every time they want to leave a half teaspoon of pee pee in the toilet every 20 minutes. You think you have it all good, they haven't had any accidents and you have saved 2 weeks worth of diapers. Then comes one day when they are too busy playing and decide to pee all over the kitchen floor and try to hide it by swooshing it down the heater vent. You think you are all good for at least an hour because there was so much pee they won't need to go again for a while. Then they decide they want to "drive" the rental car, and they poop all over the seats. Allllll over. Did I say alllllll over? Cause I meant alllllllllllllllllll over. No kidding. Go hug your cats.

[MQAAord]

Ooooh, I guess the ole' potty training isn't going so well............... :shock: