falling into an abyss?

[Kristie]

ok.. this hasn't happened yet.. but dh is seriously on a downer with the BK news and all that...

anyone have any ideas on how to keep your hubby and/or loved one from falling into the abyss?

I've pulled him out of something before when his dad died, but that was years ago and every now and then, when he gets depressed, it's hard to see where he's at and i end up getting frustrated with it!

I like to stay prepared because i don't like things taking me off guard (like my dad retiring in one minute, renigging the next! haha)... and i know, just by hearing his voice on the cell, how low his morale is right now.

[MQAAord]

Bill has not been in a good 'place' since DL announced the first furloughs on March 25, 2003. I remember that date because he absolutly flipped out that night, he was convinced he was going to be furloughed right then, and our first baby was on the way, it was just an awful awful night. Ever since then, all I've heard is "if I still have a job", "if we keep the house", it's like having a halo of gloom over me every second of every day of every year.

I had such high hopes when we did finally sell the house and move, we'd put ourselves in a great financial position. We sold that expensive old house with the rediculously high taxes and payed off ALL our credit cards and totally 'reduced' to be able to live comfortable within the new pay scale. Then this bankruptcy comes along and now they're asking for even more, and we again are faced with the uncertaintly that he'll even have a job!

Bill used to be a generally happy person, he had his moments, don't we all, but overall he was more or less 'happy'. Since March 25th 2003 he has turned into the most negative person I've ever known. Practically everthing that comes out of his mouth is negative, he complains constantly, and takes out his wrath by screaming obscenities at sports games & throwing hissy fits at every little aggrivation life sends his way. (Like stomping, yelling & swearing because he can't find the right screwdriver or something.)

I hate Delta for what they've done to him. I hate that I have to live with this negative person. He doesn't listen to any advice from anyone, and he totally allows himself to wallow in the bad news he hears. It's awful. I hate Delta. I hope he does find another job and quit. If he does, so help me I'll go to Atlanta myself and tell 'ole Gerr-Gerr just what I think of him. I'll try to remember to pull my shoe back out of his @ss before I leave.

He did the right thing by leaving TWA for Delta, if he hadn't he'd have been furloughed by AA years ago.

I don't know how to help him. I've tried everything over the years and nothing has worked. I just live with it, and hope that someday things will be better.

[roz]

Does Delta offer EAP as a benefit? It might help. For either the pilot or the spouse.

[Kristie]

I don't know if they'll be offering EAP anymore...I wouldn't know how to use it even if we do have it!

doug's been just as unhappy as bill... every time he comes home from a trip he says he wants out.. he'll do anything to get out...but he's agreed that he won't leave until he can at least supplement his income.. but his aviation degree won't help with anything, so if anything.. he'd have to do something flying wise or go back to school...

but he is getting more and more negative, sometimes goes on with the negativity for hours without realizing it.. altho he did come home tonight with a bit of a fight side because he got into it with the SLC LEC lead guy (apparently, he had the guy speechless and the group around him giving him high fives!). but unlike tonight, he's usually so dependent on me pulling him out of his "downer days" that if i'm not prepared, i have a hard time doing it cuz i have to pull myself out of it then too - it's like trying to save 2 people... as it is, i have to pull myself up everyday just to go about my day cuz i deal with depression on a daily basis (after losing my mom and brother - and i don't take drugs for it, i've learned to do it on my own, so some days are especially hard)...but i can totally relate to the halo of gloom..we have it here too esp since we just don't know what to expect...it's just a matter of preparing and trying to figure out what to do without hampering life too much.

sometimes it's just so hard not to say "get over it, i hate my job too but you don't see me getting all depressed" - altho i didn't think i'd be working my entire life except maybe part time(another story.. hahaha)

but anyways, we could go talk to *people* but honestly, i think the only way to get things better is to get some change going on - so we're looking at different avenues of work for him and after that, we'll work on avenues for me because right now, he's a lot more down than i am..I've learned to deal with it, to get myself out of it better than he has...and i can deal with my job - so long as i get a paycheck!

I feel for you guys Amber! got the two little ones to put thru college and it sounds like you've already slimlined your expenses!! I've decided on no children, primarily due to the instability of this industry...i'm already 36, getting too old to keep it off for too much longer...I just don't want to bring a child in here if i can't predict the stability of our incomes and our paychecks...I'm used to doing the things i do, like traveling, having my hair done etc...I know i'm going to have to cut out a lot but i don't think i could ever be like my mom was and give *everything* to my kids (she complained so much about not having any money to even buy herself clothes) and take nothing for myself.. i'm just not like that and probably never will be. so, i give up! we'll keep with the cats and hope to be able to afford a dog someday!

granted, i feel weird talking about affording things cuz i still have a pretty good job with paycheck coming in and altho we're losing money, we're not going to be eating hot dogs and a can of food. but for some reason, i never thought i'd say this, but it still feels the same! right now, if feels like i'm going from the high life to a life of being house poor, coupons and a can of food for dinner.. how weird is that?! I never thought i'd be relating to those families that have had an incredible lifestyle only to have it ripped away!!

if/when you decide you wanna go put your shoe in Gerry's ass, let me know and I'll bring my broomstick!!

[roz]

I gotta run to a conference today. But when i get home I'll post. I have some suggestions. But know that my thoughts are with you.

[Kristie]

oh we know! i think all the DAL & NWA wives are in the hyperventilating part of it right now...

the best part about it is that every day is a new day... a new day to take a look at what's down the road, check out options, plan strategies and our sleep time is just enough to let our brains cool down so we can view this all again in a new day!

it's all in the "where to go from here" and in getting used to change again!

so a conference eh? what in?? I hope it won't be a sleepy day for you!!

[roz]

It was an HR Leadership conference. I get pumped up over that!

Here are my thoughts. There are lots of skills that transfer to other jobs. And there are opportunities to return to school (even on line) to gain other skills and credentials. Charlie's cousin was furloughed from United, went back to school and is now teaching special ed. He'll be tenured next year and have a second pension on top of his military pension. He had been training pilots in the Air Force and decided he liked teaching. He also wanted to make a difference and be more marketable.

I know you are concerned about the specific degree he has. There is a lot of distance between the degree and now. He has excellent communication skills and excellent interpersonal skills. He has leadership skills. He has organizational skills. He has computer skills. He probably has a million other skills I'm not mentioning that would be important in the workplace. All those translate.

The bottom line is that you spend most of your waking hours at work. You MUST be happy. If not, then you have to take steps to change that. He needs to evaluate what aspects of the job he likes and dislikes and then think about how they apply in other industries. Very often the state Departments of Labor have couselors and information for job seekers. And if he wants to open his own business, they have the one stop shops to help. The reason I asked about an EAP is that often they have career counseling added in as a service. If you'd like, I'd be happy to put you in touch with some local HR people who could provide guidance. Or I'd be happy to help.

Doing nothing is a choice. Making that choice is a consious decision. Giving yourself options by exploring other avenues is also a choice.

BK is not pretty. The creditors rule the decision making. The unions can try to fight, but it is not an easy battle. What is the most junior pilot now at US Airways? 17 + years.

As for your family decision making based on this--don't. Make your decision based on what YOU want, not what Delta is doing. Delta does not control your life. In the end, you do. Material things are not what really makes us happy, Kristie. I know you know that. And kids aren't interested in that either unless we make them that way. Having been raised by a mother who grew up in Europe during WWI and came to this country, married during the Depression and by a father who experienced religious discrimination while supporting his family of seven, I know the frugality. To this day, I pick the largest cantaloupe because my mother taught me to get the most for the money. To this day, I calculate which size item is least expensive. And, because my mother grew up in a war and lived through the rationing of another war, I learned to have a pantry so my family would not starve. Yikes, I'm nuts!

[jakenash]

Wow....is all I have to say after reaqding this post.

[Kristie]

Thanks roz, I appreciate your thoughts and will give them much more thought too

[Bigsweetie]

I agree with Roz on the kids point. Eric and I have NO money what-so-ever and when I got pregnant (we were trying to) I asked myself if I was being "fair" to my child because I know how uncertain this industry is. Was it fair to the baby, or to us for that matter, to live like pauper's just for my own selfish need for a child?

You know what? My daughter could care less that I get her formula from WIC. She could care less that we are on foodstamps. And she could care less, that I haven't cut (or for that matter brushed LOL) my hair in months!! When I get up in the morning and she looks at me with those big blue eyes and smiles and coos I know that we did the right thing. She's here for a reason, to make our lives brighter even in the darkest of circumstances. And she's not suffering either. She's a happy, healthy, and deeply loved child - that's all she'll EVER need from us.

I grew up EXTREMELY poor. Oftentimes I didn't have anything to eat and we slept in a singlewide mobilehome with no electricity, heat, or running water. But I had a great childhood. My mom and I played together, laughed together, and even cried together. She's my best friend. And I wouldn't trade my life for anything. I grew up poor - so what! It taught me that money/possession do not equal happiness!!

Your decision to have kids or not have kids is your own and i'm not trying to pursuade you in either direction here!! I'm not one of those people that thinks that EVERY couple should have children in order to be happy. That's simply not true. You have to make the decision that is right for your family. But don't let Delta (or aviation for that matter) be the deciding vote!!

Aviation is very volitile and unpredictable - well you know what? So is life!! No one has a guarantee! I'm an interior designer and i've been layed off twice (in a matter of 6months!!). I live in Detroit and if you knew how many people get layed off all the time from the automakers - it's ridiculous! You do the best you can with the situation that you're in.

Make the choice that's right for you and Doug!!

O.K. - off my soapbox

Tanya