money issues and ranting

[skibum515]

my apologies to those who have read John's thread on JC but i gotta vent a bit about it...

So right now John is sitting at just under 200 hours and is trying to get his commercial done this summer (he already has the private and instrument). His parents paid for his training up until now and then they basically ahve pulled the plug on him. He's working a crappy job making $6.45 an hour but they won't give him more than 29 hours a week because then they have to pay more (or some BS reason like that). Anyway, his parents gave him $600 to use on flying and john chose to put that along with $200 of his own money into this flight club where now he can rent the planes for (relativly) cheap. the 172 is renting for $43/hr just to give you an idea. anyway he's figuring it's going to cost him another 15k to finish off all his ratings and he wants to be done by next december (2005) when he graduates college. His only real option right now is a loan, but unfortunatly if he wants to get a student loan through his school it gets put right into his student account, he never sees the money. same with various other loans out there for students. sallie mae and key west don't recognize the FBO that he's flying out of so they won't give him loans either. He talked to his dad tonight who basically didn't listen to a word he said about these places not giving him money and told him to find it on his own.

this whole situation is really tearing me up because i want to help him out but i know financially i'm a drain on him even though i try not to be. I am worried as is john about him taking out a loan and then not being able to find a job after graduation (flight instructing or otherwise) and then not being able to pay back the money he owes.

has anyone else had to go through this sort of thing? how did you handle it? I know money is one of the big reasons that people break up or get divorced because they can't figure it out and i really don't want that to be us (not that i'm thinking about breaking up with him but you know what i mean) but the whole money thing is really putting a lot of stress on us both and subsequently on our relationship.

BAH! today just sucks because he's been trying to figure this all out today and i started my summer class today and it is really going to be a lot worse than my spring one was, i'm not liking the instructor, he's a nervous person (pacing, clicking his pen etc) so that kinda puts me on edge too. He's also a real grammer freak and is trying to explain all these concepts in terms of their grammer (in italian) and i don't even know what a predicate adjective is in english let alone italian!! ACK! I had 4 hours of homework tonight and i'm not even finished, i just kinda gave up because my brain started flipping out and today is only the first class. I came home today and cried for an hour because i was so stressed and now i get to deal with john being pissed off at his parents/school/banks/life etc while i'm still not in a good mood!!! :cry: :evil: :evil: :?

[Amanda]

It's OK to rant a bit... especially about money. It's a tough career in the beginning. Nick was making decent money in his previous career but followed his passion and went forward with plans to be a pilot.

He moved to AZ since the aviation school had a really good program where you become an instructor and end up working for them (he was making approx. $15/hr as an instructor, I believe). His loan was extremely high- $50K! I still have a hard time thinking about it! I don't know who the loan was through, just that it was through the aviation school. It is the only thing that really gets to him- he knows it's going to be a looooong time before it is paid off. We don't fight about money but lets just say that I never expect him to pay for things. We usually pay 50-50 when we go out. I'm not rich myself, but I offer to help him out sometimes but he never accepts my offer.

I'm not sure what the future holds for the 2 of us, but I can tell you that he is probably worried about finances. He chose to be a pilot-- what he truly loves, vs making a lot more money in a career that isn't fulfilling.
We both know that it will get better, money-wise, later on. (well at least we hope!!)

[skibum515]

what flight school did he go to do you know? or where in AZ it was?

I end up usually paying for things when we go out and I don't even have a job!! my mom has been giving me some money every couple of weeks because i'm in classes and can't have a job and realistically expect to pass. It just bugs me about that sometimes, but then other times i feel really bad becasue he has to put like $30 worth of gas in to his crappy old van to come see me. So then I try to go to his place more but then i get cranky cause of driving...you get the picture. ack. The worst part is i see this all getting worse before it gets better. I'm not real sure what's going to go on after I graduate and I'm thinking about becoming a ski instructor for this season, but i'm sure that pays little. The other option that I'm hoping will pan out is a job doing medical research at the hospital here. I've had the interview with them but no word yet and that was almost a month ago. They wanted someone who could start full time right away which i can't because of classes but I told them i could start part time in the fall and go full time in the winter...ack we'll see what happens. :?

[Kristie]

If the medical research place calls you back, see if you can intern with them while your attending school.. just explain that you have to concentrate on your studies for hte most part but don't want to lose an opportunity like this.. blah blah blah.. most people, as far as i know (which might not be much mind you) are usually pretty accomodating towards college students because they know they're working hard for that degree.. if it's not something you want to do in your future.. then look at interning at a future "graduate" type job..even if it is dealing with phones, typing or what not... it'll give you a bit more insite and who knows, maybe some good $$ along with it!

but anyways -> whew!! your in "the hard place" right now...where life isn't much fun because you don't have the ability to do what you want when you want....AND your the "sugamomma" (even with no job)...

one of the things you should consider is doing more free things with john...eat penny taco bell burrito's, find the coupons & rebates and use those.. the whole find a penny, pick it up is what you need to concentrate on and it can get worse depending on how you "take it".. guys are easy when it comes to money.. they don't require much (financially or emotionally).. they save every scrap for us girls...us girls are different, we require "a good time" and it usually gets kinda hairy (emotionally) when they can't provide that by taking us out.

so, I'd suggest keeping that in mind and start clipping coupons, hit the low end of the $$ scale restaurants (taco hell?), find the free things to do and enjoy them, hit the $1 movies... find inventive ways to do things like eating a can of black beans on a picnic blanket for lunch...or watching dvd's with the sound off - creating your own script and make some popcorn...there's no money involved if you already own the DVD's & popcorn's super cheap...at some point, you'll find that it's more fun to go to the hole in the wall cheapie restaurants and do things that don't cost a dime...

You also might consider driving up to John more often vs him driving to you... stuff like this is one of the lower ends of the relationship spectrum for us girls, but overall - it really helps out our guys when all is seriously financially unstable. granted, it'd be A LOT more work for you, but he'll seriously appreciate it!

I was pretty hard on doug when i think back to it! it was a serious learning curve for me (I complained A LOT)....I didn't even get to see him while he was instructing...except for every 6 months in which I'd pick him up from the airport and he'd try to treat me with as much scrap $$ that he'd saved up (taco bell was one of our main meals)... but I still picked up the tab most of the time...

and when he was in the regionals & into the first year or so of Delta, I was always driving to the airport to pick him up and drop him off (using my car, my mileage, my gas, my tires etc), let him stay at my place for free (free laundry, free food, free utils, free dog playtime) etc. every other week... around every 4 months or so, i'd get emotionally distraught about it because my biological clock was tickin & it was just taxing on me...but he really appreciated that we kept the marriage/baby thing on the low & that he didn't have to rent a car or a room each time he came down to Fla and every now and then, he gave me a break and did rent a car, again with scrap regional $$....

I have to say that back then, it was really REALLY hard...but in time (a lot of time), it all worked out...I'm a better person for it, he's a better person for it.. it was worth it at the time & we now know just how "worth it" it was and honestly, I woudn't have done it any differently (except for my insecant "want some cheese with that whine" whining back then)....

it just depends on how you want your relationship to work out...if you really want it to work out.. sometimes we just have to suck it up and take the strife, deal with all the crap (as a pilots future wife esp)... it's part of the give/take deal...

it's a give/take, love/hate relationship where right now - your more in the give/give area.. your take will come later - probably years later, but it will come and all will work out! just remember - day at a time!!

make sure john understands that your willing to do more and make sure he also understand that you expect it to not be taken advantage of...I dunno what to say about the loan situation, haven't dealt with those - I'd have him ask the guys on JC or see is his dad will "loan" him the money at a particular interest rate with written paper work.. that way, his dad knows he's serious and would rather pay his dad in interest vs a bank! for some parents, it works out quite well...

man - i'm a typer! sorry it's so L O N G...

[MQAAord]

When Bill and I first met, we were both on new-hire pay at Eagle. For him it was about $16.75 an hour, for me it was $10.74. Basically, dirt.

He was living at home with his parents to save money, I was running a crash pad, dividing my time between there and my family farm in Wisconsin. So we had no money between either of us. We spent a lot of nights at my old apartment watching movies and eating cheap frozen pizzas, or 'playing house' at his parents house when they were out of town.....

As the years went by and he left Eagle for TWA, going from 727 engineer to DC-9s to international on the 757/767, and then finally to Delta, things slowly improved. I finally made the jump to AA, and we were D.I.N.K.S. sitting pretty (though with a little bit of credit card debt) when we finally got married. Then I got furloughed again, and Alex came along........we're doing well, but no matter how much you make, you could always use more! Things always come up, be it the car finally falling apart, or needing to replace bathroom fixtures.

The one thing I've learned is that money isn't the end-all-be-all. You can live quite well on a little! If you're willing to not eat out all the time, shop at Aldi's, buy your clothes at Marshall's instead of Nordstrom! We were panicked when we got thinking about all the stuff we'd have to buy for the baby, but when friends & relatives who'd already had kids found out we were expecting, we got SO much in hand-me-downs we hardly had to buy anything! We got a carseat, swing, crib, TONS of clothes & toys, we were so lucky to have so many people who 'donated to the cause'! Some of it had been handed down to them, and they were just passing it along, but babies use stuff for such a small amount of time, it is still in great condition when the child doesn't use it anymore. It just makes sense to give it to someone else who can get more life out of it!

So I know it's tough right now, you're at one of the hardest stages of life & the pilot career. Pinch every penny, and know that it won't last forever!

[Bigsweetie]

I know what you're going through right now. Aviation is very expensive. Unfortunately if he can't get any loans he may have to pay for it himself and he may have to come to terms with the fact that it will take him longer. Just make sure that he doesn't start paying for this with credit cards. I know pilots who did and they are in a serious financial mess. That's no way for you two to start a marriage. It may take a while, but eventually it will be worth it. Unfortunately the financial end of it probably won't get any better for quite a while. My DH graduated with a degree in aviation in 1999 and he still does not make very much money. It's very tough and I can sympathize with you, but the only advise I can give is to hang in there and try to be supportive.

Is he going to school for aviation? Or just trying to get his ratings outside of a university? If it's the latter, i'd suggest that he get a "good" job and get his ratings "on the side", then when he's ready, jump into the industry. I know that could take a long time, but trust me - if he goes into alot of financial debt now to hurry up and become a paid pilot, he will not make enough to pay back loans, credit cards, etc. If possible, you want to enter this profession with as little debt as possible.

My .02

[Amanda]

[quote:b755cc11d9="skibum515"]what flight school did he go to do you know? or where in AZ it was?[/quote:b755cc11d9]

Nick went to Westwind School of Aviation: www.iflywestwind.com
A lot of people go there and become instructors and build enough minimum time to be able to get a "real" job. Nick and many of his friends now work for Mesa Air- a regional based in Phoenix AZ. The company doesn't exactly pay the bills, but they allow a fairly quick upgrade time. Some of his classmates went from FO to Cpt in less than 6 months! Nick is there to build enough time so that he can be able to appply at one of the majors and make a bit more money.

A lot of the other ladies had good ideas about saving money. I guess I'm fortunate since Nick is a MAJOR penny pincher! He's always trying to save money and when we're together we do a lot of free things. We love to take walks and go bike riding. We also rent a lot of movies. At work I sometimes get free movie tickets as a "bonus" which is nice. When I first started dating Nick we spent a lot of gas money going back and forth to see each other. For a few months before he moved back to the East coast he moved in with me. I never asked him to pay any expenses, but he would make up for it by doing things around the house. I also forgot to mention that he has been on the east coast to fly out of a city near his parents (there aren't any AZ bases available). He is living with them to save some money. He loves his family but I know it bothers him to have to live with his mom and dad again!

I think one of the reasons he is with me is because I'm not high maintenance and I definitely don't expect expensive gifts. I know that money isn't everything and having someone who loves you is more important. Like the other ladies said, this is not the way it will always be... at some point (in the far future?) he'll be making more money. The sacrifices we make today will be worth it later on.

I realize that my situation is different than yours since I am out of school (WAY out of school) and I have a steady job (although I am not rolling in $$$). The good thing about your situation is that John is starting in this career when he's young. Nick was 28 when he decided to be a pilot!

[amg29]

I can totally relate to your situation as I am back in school for my second degree in nursing. Hans is doing the regional thing so we don't have to worry about his expenses, but my student loans will probably amount to $25,000! That's a lot for me since I've never taken out a loan.
Anyway, I would suggest just take a deep breath and take one day at a time. Money problems seem to always work out, and I know it will for you and your boyfriend. Kristie is right, try to cut some corners....I have become a coupon addict! We even took a coupon I found for Hooters the other night when Hans was home!
Here's a link that might help. It has printable coupons, things you can get free in the mail, etc..... www.savingsmania.com
I also watch in the Sunday paper for coupons each week. Sometimes I even trade on www.couponforum.com
Even though it is tight with money right now...remember the best thing is free...having eachother. I think it will make your boyfriend feel better if you talk to him about how much you care about him and will support him no matter what.
Oh, and having little time to study for a summer course---that I can relate to also! It helps me to write down what I have to do for quizzes, exams, homework due, etc. and then I reward myself after I accomplish each one. That way I don't feel so overwhelmed. And, whenever I have a professor that irritates me in some way (such as the thick Russian accent my Statistics prof has) I just remind myself that the professor was awarded that job for a reason, and try to learn as much as I can from a "smart brain".
I hope that helps some. I'll put you and your boyfriend in my prayers tonight.
Take care! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[skibum515]

Thanks guys for all your ideas and encouragement. It really helps to know that others have been through all this before. You guys have given some great ideas, and I really appreciate it!! I'm doing better now, i think i was having a rough day the other day ... anyway I hope we can get things going here pretty quick with his career. He's looking to find someplace that'll give him a 10K loan because he figures that won't be too much to pay off even if he doesn't "make it" as a pilot.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] thanks for your encouragement guys, I'll keep you updated

[fly-girl]

one thing that came to mind when i read all the posts about saving money and pinching pennies is garage sales! i know it may sound tacky but its something free to do, you get exercise by walking around, and you can find some great deals. we go to garage sales in all the super ritzy areas of town and they sell stuff that looks brand new. the funnest part is trying to talk them down too. we bought a brand new couch at a garage sale and they were asking $250 and we talked them down to $150. fun fun i tell ya.