Interested on your political thoughts...

[spotty4]

Mistress Trista may be an "alarmist", but she is BANG ON w/ her thoughts and concerns. This country is headed in a downward spiral ... FAST. China and India are nipping at our heels and will overtake us very quickly!

For me, I need a candidate that supports the following issues:
1. pro choice
2. R & D for the sciences and technology
3. Education

#2 and #3 are all about us attempting to stay in the global race. We're already suffering brain drain: 1.top scientists are leaving the US to do their research elsewhere where rules are less stringent and stifling (e.g. stem cell research) and 2. foreign students come to the US for top notch education, and then take their new found knowledge and skills back to their country ... for some reason we cannot keep them here.

[Amanda]

Kristie- I think you already know my stance on this topic.
I don't think politics has any place here. Honestly, from what I've observed in the past, most of the time politics discussions end up with people arguing and fighting (not just disagreeing nicely).

I have my views but I will not voice them here. Even with my best friends who have opposite views, I have a 'no politics' rule when we're together. They can discuss all they want, but I want no parts of it.

[SeatClutcher]

Why would politics have no place here?

Disagreement is healthy, and people are passionate about what they care about. The discussion has stayed incredibly civil on JC - I don't know why it should be any different here, unless someone gets excited.

And if they do, they could probably be told to calm down to respect the expected behavior on the site.

Not talking about politics on a "woman" site is scary - it brings to mind a time before MY time when women simply weren't "equipt" to discuss such things.

Or vote, for that matter.

That said, I love Obama! He strikes me more as a person who's interested in being president so he can do something good for the country than he strikes me as a Politician (meant to have a negative connotation) who wants to be president so he can be president.

[katherine2473]

As an outsider, I find US politics fascinating! Over in the UK, I'm conservative but by US standards I'm as woolly liberal as they come! My views don't change the moment I cross the Atlantic! What I find really astonishing is how certain issues become such political hot potatoes when they are surely only one out of a whole range of factors that might influence one's voting tendencies. I am constantly amazed that it seems to be 'impossible' to be pro-choice (which I am to the core) and Republican, or anti abortion and a democrat, for example, yet why should my political stance be pigeonholed purely because of one belief I hold? Anyway, you can tell that's a 'discussion' I have had with my DH a LOOOT of times!
But as an outsider, I have to say I am so hoping Hillary doesn't get it! She just has that sense of entitlement about her - almost irritation that they haven't just gifted her the nomination - that winds me up big time.

[Regina]

I think, even if we would not mention politics on here, everyone pretty much knows everyone's political opinions without having a discussion on it.

For instance, abortion...political hot topic, right? Well, I could probably tell you from people's posts who is pro-choice or pro-life. I might be wrong about a few, but for the most part, it is obvious.

I think there was a discussion about how someone's husband voted on Alpa too. That got some comments back....if I am recalling correctly.

No matter how much we discuss it, I doubt anyone's political opinions are going to change. It may show more of a person's personality by discussing what issues are important to them, but I think that is about it.

For instance, Katherine mentioned something about how abortion seems to be a factor in defining republican and democrats. I agree, it typically does define it...except this election Guliani is pro-choice (not typical of a republican). There are political groups out there that are pro-choice Republicans, Pro-choice Catholics, Pro-life Democrats, etc. that go against traditional stereo-types. So, just like any rule, there are exceptions. Since abortion is such a hot topic for me, yes, I do look at that as one of the first things that helps me decide a candidate. If the candidate is not acceptable in this aspect to me, than he gets crossed out. I don't even look further into what the rest of his political views are. Then I go to the next topic that is important to me, if they aren't acceptable in the next catagory, then I continue down the line with topics and candidates.

I, personally, am having a difficult time this year because so many candidates are alike in so many ways....good and bad. But, I do have a so-called litmus test that I use in choosing the one that meets my standard. I am sure that everyone has their own way of deciding candidates....even if it is just flipping a coin or looking at how the polls are doing.

So, I guess I am wondering that since everyone probably knows each other's political views, maybe Kristie was asking just what we thought about the results....like did it surprise us any that so and so did so well or that so and so didn't do as well...????? I don't know...

Discussing it is no big deal to me, unless it gets heated or someone starts slamming another on why they feel that way.

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by Regina

I think, even if we would not mention politics on here, everyone pretty much knows everyone's political opinions without having a discussion on it.

How?

For instance, abortion...political hot topic, right? Well, I could probably tell you from people's posts who is pro-choice or pro-life. I might be wrong about a few, but for the most part, it is obvious.

Do you really judge a person's views on everything so quickly? You'd probably be surprised how often you're wrong.

No matter how much we discuss it, I doubt anyone's political opinions are going to change. It may show more of a person's personality by discussing what issues are important to them, but I think that is about it.

What good is any talk about anything, then, if it's generally pointless?

I always thought it was pretty good for encouraging thought and keeping the mind sharp.

It doesn't have to be about trying to alter someone's opinion. Even UNDERSTANDING someone else's opinion can be valuable, and important in the larger picture of human empathy.

Plus - it's educational, and often interesting.

For instance, Katherine mentioned something about how abortion seems to be a factor in defining republican and democrats. I agree, it typically does define it...except this election Guliani is pro-choice (not typical of a republican). There are political groups out there that are pro-choice Republicans, Pro-choice Catholics, Pro-life Democrats, etc. that go against traditional stereo-types. So, just like any rule, there are exceptions. Since abortion is such a hot topic for me, yes, I do look at that as one of the first things that helps me decide a candidate. If the candidate is not acceptable in this aspect to me, than he gets crossed out. I don't even look further into what the rest of his political views are. Then I go to the next topic that is important to me, if they aren't acceptable in the next catagory, then I continue down the line with topics and candidates.
I, personally, am having a difficult time this year because so many candidates are alike in so many ways....good and bad. But, I do have a so-called litmus test that I use in choosing the one that meets my standard. I am sure that everyone has their own way of deciding candidates....even if it is just flipping a coin or looking at how the polls are doing.

But you're not interested in discussing politics, right...?

So, I guess I am wondering that since everyone probably knows each other's political views

Do they??

maybe Kristie was asking just what we thought about the results....like did it surprise us any that so and so did so well or that so and so didn't do as well...????? I don't know...

I figured she thought we, as intelligent people, might have some things we wanted to say. Elections are big things! How could we not talk about them? People (myself included) spend post after post on JG talking about rug colors, who's cheating on who, and what to think of flight attendants... surely elections are just as important...?

Discussing it is no big deal to me, unless it gets heated or someone starts slamming another on why they feel that way.

I agree with you on people slamming one another. But what's wrong with heated?

[Amanda]

Originally Posted by SeatClutcher

Why would politics have no place here?

Disagreement is healthy, and people are passionate about what they care about. The discussion has stayed incredibly civil on JC - I don't know why it should be any different here, unless someone gets excited.

And if they do, they could probably be told to calm down to respect the expected behavior on the site.

Not talking about politics on a "woman" site is scary - it brings to mind a time before MY time when women simply weren't "equipt" to discuss such things.

Or vote, for that matter.

That said, I love Obama! He strikes me more as a person who's interested in being president so he can do something good for the country than he strikes me as a Politician (meant to have a negative connotation) who wants to be president so he can be president.

OMG ... way to turn what I wrote and twist it around! I almost fell off my chair. I gues the creative writer in you came out.
I definitely wasn't referring to the fact that this is a "woman's site" so THAT'S why we shouldn't discuss politics.

I spoke out of experience. On this site 4 years ago (or maybe another 'aviation family' site- I can't remember now) when it DID get very, very ugly!
I was just remembering THAT and what nasty things some people said to each other! It's fine... healthy even.. to have disagreements. I don't shy away from them normally- it's just politics and the issues surrounding political discussions can bring out the claws in some.

That's all I'm saying.

[Regina]

Seatclutcher,

Like usual, i think you misunderstood my post. My thoughts were that it is no big deal to have this discussion on the topic of politics. Have it or don't have it, no big deal either way. People can choose to participate or not.

And yes, i do judge who i will vote for presidency based on how they feel about abortion. And no, i personally do not have any friends that do not feel the same way i do about this topic. Why...because it is something i feel very strong about.

You seem to attack my opinions quite often. If you notice, in this political post, i didn't mention which way i felt about the abortion issue. but, i am sure from my past posts, you can tell which way i lean.

So, when i say that i don't want to get into anything heated or attacking, it is mostly because of you specifically that tends to enjoy tearing apart my posts...for whatever reason it may be. I don't mind talking politics; in fact, i think i talked about my opinion about the results in an earlier post. But, like i mentioned, you personally do not seem to attack just my opinions but you seem to enjoy attacking me.

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by Regina

Seatclutcher,

Like usual, i think you misunderstood my post. My thoughts were that it is no big deal to have this discussion on the topic of politics. Have it or don't have it, no big deal either way. People can choose to participate or not.

And yes, i do judge who i will vote for presidency based on how they feel about abortion.

I meant people - the ones on this site. You wrote that you know what people think based on their posts.

You seem to attack my opinions quite often.

Regina, I beg of you - stop using the word "attack." someone asking questions about something you said, or even disagreeing with you, isn't the same as an attack.

But I will absolutely apologize if I have attacked you - please just show me where i did it.

So, when i say that i don't want to get into anything heated or attacking, it is mostly because of you specifically that tends to enjoy tearing apart my posts...

I don't enjoy tearing them apart - I just like quoting blocks and responding to them instead of writing a chunky paragraph. It seems like it would be more clear/make more sense for the person (in this case, you) being talked to.

But, like i mentioned, you personally do not seem to attack just my opinions but you seem to enjoy attacking me.

You can say it as many times as you want, Regina, but it won't make it true. I don't "enjoy attacking" you. Again, please show me where I attacked you and I'll apologize.

[SeatClutcher]

Originally Posted by Amanda

OMG ... way to turn what I wrote and twist it around! I almost fell off my chair. I gues the creative writer in you came out.
I definitely wasn't referring to the fact that this is a "woman's site" so THAT'S why we shouldn't discuss politics.

I spoke out of experience. On this site 4 years ago (or maybe another 'aviation family' site- I can't remember now) when it DID get very, very ugly!
I was just remembering THAT and what nasty things some people said to each other! It's fine... healthy even.. to have disagreements. I don't shy away from them normally- it's just politics and the issues surrounding political discussions can bring out the claws in some.

That's all I'm saying.

My bad!!! I threw in the "woman's site" thing. Probably because this is largely a woman's site, and this and other sites frequented by women, there've been too manay times when a very simple disagreement has been misunderstood as something sinister.

I know what you mean about the sites that get nasty - they can get really, really cruel (I recently left one that was like that). But the flip side of that danger is forums that will hardly allow a disagreement...everyone pretty much either has to agree with one another, of if they disagree, they have to do it very, very nicely, and in a way that pretty much hides that they're disagreeing. Kinda like this:

Person 1: "I wish Barack Obama would win."
Person 2: "Do you? I don't know. I mean, he's okay and everything. I mean, I guess he's nice. But I wish he and someone else would win. Except more the other person, I think. IMO!!!"

(Okay, it wasn't that bad, but it was very, very limiting.)

Again - very sorry!!