Did any of you see this???

[flyershoe]

Originally Posted by mcmuffinpilot

yes I saw this clip...really hope it doesn't hurt EXJet 's rep...

I think someone should get a hold of that black box and play for us all to hear before judgements are passed .

The black box only records conversations in the cockpit, not the cabin, AFAIK.

I'm sure that the FA was probably rude to the PAX, and of course there are people on the plane that are backing the woman up. BUT (I know I'm going to catch a lot of flack for this) it seems like these days PAX just don't give the crew any respect. Everyone was tired after the long delays, including the crew. The other passengers were most likely tired and cranky, too. Who wouldn't be annoyed at having to turn around and go back to the gate? They all wanted to get where they were going.

It was never mentioned whether or not this child was sitting down... the other PAX wouldn't have noticed if this kid wasn't in his seat or sitting on his mom's lap. All they may have heard was him saying "bye bye plane" and not have seen what the child was PHYSICALLY doing. I have a hunch that this was a lap child who was fidgeting and not sitting still. From what I understand, that is a safety issue. Passengers who are two rows (or even a row behind) them wouldn't have been able to see what was going on, especially if they were belted in. It seems like everyone is out to make a buck these days, and I think that there's more to this story. The FA certainly made things worse, I'm not saying that there was nothing wrong with what she did... but what if this woman said something rude to the FA first? We're only hearing one side to the story.

It's also been mentioned that the child was crawling all over the set and had to be removed during the GMA segment. The mother didn't exactly seem like she would be good at disciplining her kid. I've seen this woman on two different video clips and quite honestly, she just looks like an inexperienced parent who is afraid to tell her child no. I've just seen so many parents that think it's cute or funny when their child is bothering others. Some people aren't kid people. A coworker and I were waiting in line to order food one day when this child of about 2 starts babbling to us... the mother was talking to her friend ahead of her in line, not paying attention to her kid. Mind you, my coworker and I were in a rather serious discussion. This kid won't leave us alone, she's pulling on our pantlegs, etc. The mother turns around and tells the kid to 'leave the ladies alone', then turns right around back to her friend. THEN, after we tried to ignore her, the little girl takes the balloon animal she has and starts hitting us with it!?!? We politely asked her mother to please control her child, and she was quite indignant and offended that we had asked!! Her kid later pops the balloon animal which nearly gave everyone in Chipotle a heart attack... because it is Baltimore City after all!! I've just seen more and more parents out in public not controlling their kids, either because they're not paying attention to them or possibly out of fear that someone would call CPS on them. Brian and I saw a guy yesterday in the line at the grocery store who was letting his kids climb all over the neighboring counter/display area. He half-heartedly told them to stop, but wasn't firm at all. It seems to me that a lot of parents want to be their kid's friend nowadays and not actually parent. If you read/believe what child development books say, children can begin controlling their parents at less than a year old.

That's my novel on the subject. Please don't be too mean to me!! And I would also like to make it clear that if things DID happen the way that the woman and the press portrayed them that there is NO EXCUSE for what happened on that flight. I just want to play devil's advocate, especially since my BF is an XJT guy.

P.S. In one of the stories that I read, it said that this had taken place over a month ago.......... and it's just now making the press? Something doesn't sound quite right about that to me.

[TheWife]

Sorry, but I've got to point out, that regardless of the mother's parenting skills, since when do you have to pass for "Mother of the Year" in order to stay on a flight? I've been far more annoyed by large, or smelly, or chatty adults, than I have by "disruptive" (ie. NORMAL) kids on a plane. If you wouldn't find it acceptable to turn the flight around to kick of a drunk 70 year old who wants to share her life story, then how can you find it acceptable to turn a plane around for a disruptive kid? Honestly, the lack of tolerance people have these days is really sad! Yes, it's annoying to have a loud kid on a flight, but gee, it's a few hours of your life and then it's over with! Are we just going to start telling people kids aren't allowed?

[flyershoe]

Originally Posted by TheWife

Sorry, but I've got to point out, that regardless of the mother's parenting skills, since when do you have to pass for "Mother of the Year" in order to stay on a flight? I've been far more annoyed by large, or smelly, or chatty adults, than I have by "disruptive" (ie. NORMAL) kids on a plane. If you wouldn't find it acceptable to turn the flight around to kick of a drunk 70 year old who wants to share her life story, then how can you find it acceptable to turn a plane around for a disruptive kid? Honestly, the lack of tolerance people have these days is really sad! Yes, it's annoying to have a loud kid on a flight, but gee, it's a few hours of your life and then it's over with! Are we just going to start telling people kids aren't allowed?

I will wholeheartedly agree with you there, and I have seen MANY (and sat next to) more annoying adults than kids. As a matter of fact, I had a 16 month old in front of me a few weeks ago who was MUCH less annoying than the woman sitting next to me. My point/question is - was the kid doing more than just talking? Was the kid not sitting still on the mother's lap? Adult OR kid would get kicked off a flight very easily if they aren't sitting in their seat with their seatbelt fastened before takeoff. Again, I don't condone the FA's comments/behavior, I'm just saying that I would like to hear the crew's story. There's three sides to every story... and we've only heard one (or two, if you include the media!).

[roz]

[quote=flyershoe;38307]The black box only records conversations in the cockpit, not the cabin, AFAIK.

It was never mentioned whether or not this child was sitting down...


It's also been mentioned that the child was crawling all over the set and had to be removed during the GMA segment. The mother didn't exactly seem like she would be good at disciplining her kid. I've seen this woman on two different video clips and quite honestly, she just looks like an inexperienced parent who is afraid to tell her child no.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I totally disagree. I was mentioned over and over that the child was sitting down and merely saying "Bye bye plane". That was confirmed in video clips from other passengers who also said that the child was not loud and did not disrupt the FA briefing.

I saw the GMA segment. Again, the mother was trying to be interviewed. It was 7:15 AM and they had been flown in for the segment. Everyone was tired! They tried to distract the child with a shuttle or airplane (I can't tell which) and he was playing with it on the table. It rolled off the table and he went after it. The mother held him back for safety reasons. He started to cry because he wanted the toy. So, they tried giving him toys they had--he wanted the plane. So, they took him off. End of story. She's not an unfit mother incapable of discipline.

The crew violated DH's #3 rule of flight: Don't do anything to get the attention of the press.

I guess the next time I'm on a flight and the adult passengers are operating electronic equipment without headphones so that the speakers are loudly broadcasting throughout the cabin, I will call the flight attendant and have them arrested!

[UKcats06]

There is a commercial for (I think) insurance and there is a woman in first class and then they show her in coach and its something about the same price for both, I don't remember. The point is, the people she is sitting between, loud obnoxious people being annoying, those people should KNOW better, but they get away with it. I'm not making excuses for kids, but granted they don't always know better. Especially young ones, they don't understand why their ears hurt and what is going on. You can't rationalize with a little kid that there are delays. Adults should know better, but they get away with it! No one says anything to adults being loud. I personally would much rather sit next to a little kid than an obnoxious adult.

[flyershoe]

Man, I was SO CLOSE to finding out who the crew was that flew this flight. I finally figured out which flight this happened on by cross-referencing information in various articles with information from flight aware. It was on flight #2472 (IAH-OKC) on June 15th. When I looked up the pairing on CCS, the crew info was missing though... guess they knew that nosy people like me would try to find it... although if I had, I wouldn't have posted the info here, I do have SOME common sense ... I would also like to mention that the flight was originally scheduled for a 5:40 PM departure, but it looks like they didn't get off the ground until 12:38 AM... So while a 7 hour delay is horrible, the way it is reported in the news made it sound like there was an 11 hour delay... I had a 5 hour delay at IAH a few weeks ago, so it's not like it doesn't happen, especially with their regular storms (of course delays are easier for those of us without kids, but the point I am making is about delays in general).

What was that other thread about obsessions? I've read sooooooo much stuff on this in so many places... it's almost become my own personal investigation!!! At least people won't say "Who's ExpressJet?" anymore!!

My current standing is that they weren't kicked off because of the baby, they were kicked off because of the mother and whatever she said to the FA. Possibly also that the child wasn't merely talking, but out of his seat & the mother said that there was nothing she could do about it, therefore not controlling her child and disobeying the FA's instructions to get her kid seated & quiet.

[Erin]

When I asked Tom about this, he looked at some of the news reports, watched the GMA video, etc. He hadn't heard anything official, and doubts that he will. The only thing he had to say was that if anyone on his crew, FA or FO, felt threatened by a passenger, that was it for the passenger. Accomodations could and would be made on another flight, but as far as his flight was concerned, they would no longer be riding. Another "disqualification" is not following the directions of a crew member.

Its a small team in a 145, but a team nonetheless. Tom said he places his trust in his qualified crew first, passengers second (or, never). If there is a problem, the crew always wins.

That being said, he also agreed with Roz's fellow, avoid media attention. But, in this case, if something made the FA feel threatened, so be it. He doesn't condone rude behavior on the part of any airline employee, but also pointed out that we really only have one side of the story. SOMETHING else happened on that flight.

Isn't the media marvelous?

Erin

[roz]

Well, I asked DH about it too. And he goes by rule #2: Don't get yourself in the news.

But, he disagrees (he's only been flying since 1980) in that he would have investigated. After a lengthly delay, he would not want to turn back unless it was extreme. Why did the captain do so quickly? Was there really a problem (passenger witnesses say no)? Was the captain inexperienced? We don't know. Was the FA a nut case? We don't know. So what else are the possibilities? I'm not gonna post what he said.

I like to stick to facts rather than draw conclusions based on rumors.

All we know is the plane was delayed for many hours. It took off after midnight! Now we have a 19 month (awake long after bedtime) old saying good bye to the plane they are passing as they finally taxi away.

No one has ever said that the child disrupted the FA's demonstration. No one has said that the child was loud. No one has said that the child refused to be seated. Again we have passengers on tape confirming this, albeit without the benefit of opposing interviewers.

All anyone said was that the child said, "Bye bye plane." And the mother was heard by witnesses to say, "He'll be asleep in 15 minutes--that's his pattern." The FA told her to drug the child.

So, for that they got thrown off the plane.

I just don't get it.

But I only fly 250,000 miles per year for business. I've never seen anything like this ever!

[UKcats06]

Why wouldn't the FA want to come forward and clear her name? I'm guessing its because the media will take it out of context and make it whatever they want. I would still try to defend my actions if I were the airline/FA. Then again maybe she was having an off day and was just in a bad mood and took it too far. And that is in NO way and excuse for her actions, just a reason as to maybe she doesn't want to say what happened.

[flyershoe]

Originally Posted by UKcats06

Why wouldn't the FA want to come forward and clear her name? I'm guessing its because the media will take it out of context and make it whatever they want. I would still try to defend my actions if I were the airline/FA. Then again maybe she was having an off day and was just in a bad mood and took it too far. And that is in NO way and excuse for her actions, just a reason as to maybe she doesn't want to say what happened.

I'm guessing that the company is advising her to keep her mouth shut. I know that I would, no matter what had happened!

I also saw letter posted on a messageboard that was allegedly written by the mother in question (Kate Penland), and in the letter she said that she was on flight #2915, not #2472 like I had thought. The interesting thing is if she really was on flight #2915 on 6/16, the time of delay is even more skewed. #2915 is scheduled as a 7:15 p.m. departure. Flightaware shows that it left at 10:56 p.m... FlightAware > Live Flight Tracker > ExpressJet Airlines #2915 > 16-Jun-2007 > KIAH-KOKC
that would have been AFTER they were kicked off, too... so part of that delay time was them taxiing out & then coming back to the gate... so really the flight was delayed for less than 4 hours if that was the case. I want to know where they got that 11 hour figure?
Then again... maybe she had been scheduled on an earlier flight, but the flight got cancelled. That makes more sense. Hmm. I'm sure that I can find out how many flights were cancelled that day... right?

Anyway, the letter also discloses the F/A's name... and she's on the August bid schedule (IAH), so if she hasn't been fired yet I would bet that there is more to the story. She's also a G3XXX, so I find it surprising that someone with that bad of an attitude would make it that long. Then again, everyone has their moments. Hmmm.

But my obsession with this topic will have to wait, I have a busy weekend ahead of me!

UPDATE - found her myspace page, but it's set to private and she has this message up:

To all of you who are trying to send me hateful mail: Try and remember that there are two sides to every story and my side is yet to be heard! Due to my company's policy I cannot divulge the TRUTH behind these terrible alligations that have been made about myself, my crew, and my company. If all of you truly believe that a passenger would be removed from a plane because of a crying toddler then you are sadly mistaken! As this was NOT the case! Sincerely, The Flight Attendant You Don't Even Know



I wanna know what really happened!!!