Reaching out to the public about pay and QOL

[Maggieee]

I'm a firm believer in not just complaining and bit#$%ing but in actively TRYING to make a difference. My husband often tells me "what good is one person going to do?" but I really think that if that one person starts doing something, it will turn into two and then three and so on and so forth. Power grows in numbers but the action starts with one person.

Pilot pay and (lack of) QOL is outrageous. Not only does the general public suffer under serious disillusions about pilot pay, as many of these previous posts state, but they also think we live a charmed life (with "glamorous" husbands with "sexy" jobs). If they were paid what they deserve, the financial benefit might at least outweigh the other bummer factors (lack of time together, difficulty for us at home with kids, stress etc.) but for now ... my hubby is still in his "rookie" years, so there are zero financial benefits. At least we all know that part will come (the financial rewards that is) down the line.

I sent a letter to some news editors of local TV stations in Phoenix expressing my disgust with pilot pay. Nothing came of it but I'll keep trying. The public HAS to be educated about the folks that are flying them from point A to B and how they are treated. I also have sent emails to the CEO of one airline sharing my thoughts with him about how he treats his pilots. Husband again thought I'd get no response. Surprise: I did, and almost right away. We actually engaged in a somewhat decent dialogue about what is "wrong" with the situation. The really shocking thing is that since then we HAVE seen some improvements!

What I'm trying to say is that you DO have a voice. Just don't give up and keep trying even if nothing happens right away. If nothing else you (and/or your DH) will feel better - and if you're not comfortable putting your name to it, do it anonymously!

[skyrocketocelot]

Wow, Maggieee... that's great! I'm glad at least one CEO is at the very least "acting" concerned... Good luck with that!

For my part, whenever the aviation industry comes up in conversations, I try to combat all the usual misconceptions, mainly that the "life" is not what it's cracked up to be... worthwhile, but it's more like a trucker's lifestyle than a John Travolta lifestyle. I am hoping it will slowly change their (especially my immediate friends and family circle!) mindsests and that I won't even have to face the "Wow, what a great life you have!" comments as SO and I get more serious... as if it were so easy to do! And hopefully, they'll pass it on to their immediate circles... perhaps the word will eventually get spread!

[Kristie]

oh no, that "wow, your life must be fabulous...you must not have to watch your budget at all" etc conversation actually never goes away. you just get used to washing it over the head. you can talk to people and tell them "how it is" till you're blue in the face but they don't necessarily grasp the concept no matter how often you tell them.

Same goes with the public... you're right Maggie, we should keep trying... but for the most part, all i've ever seen is that people don't give a crap, as long they can get cheap flights and get to/from their destination without hassle, that's all they ask for.

The only time anything ever comes to light in the publics eye (and then it goes away after they blink) is when a tragedy occurs and a TON of people have to die... it's the same way with the government offices.. you won't see the FAA changing their rules until a LOT of people die.

We can try to make a change as a collective group, but if that collective isn't always on the ball, always working for the cause, IMO, the purpose gets lost and people end up not caring anyways.

I applaud your effort Maggie and I do think you're right.. we do need to keep working for it but it needs to be as a group. kinda like when our pilots are in new negotiations and walk the line in front of the airport - we should be out there with them, chanting and walking the line because we, too, are affected by the work conditions, pay and government regulations imposed on our spouses.

I think the best way to make the public aware is to go straight to the public.. via advertisement in a newspaper, mobile billboards, marketing efforts or what not.. media crews won't pick up the story unless it's got drama attached to it...

[Amanda]

Maggie- glad to see you on here! I saw your post on another site and knew you would be a feisty addition here.

Did you see the video one of the Mesa guys made about sleeping on his airplane? It was sent to a news station in TX and they ran a few stories about it. A lot of people were outraged. I think you can still find it on YouTube.

Normally salary is supposed to be very hush hush but pilots' salaries are completely public knowledge and listed on various sites. I don't have a problem telling people how much they make since most people assume that we're rich. HA! I think Nick made $17k his first year at Mesa. It was really sad; if I didn't make a decent salary and own my own home it would have been extremely rough for us. I give a lot of credit to those who are in that situation and are also trying to support a family. I can't imagine how hard that is.

[Kristie]

It was sent to a news station in TX and they ran a few stories about it. A lot of people were outraged.

sure.. but they weren't outragged enough to send even a shiver up anyone's spine! before you knew it, the piece was history...and still people don't give enough of a damn to help us fight anything.

when doug started working at skyway...he was only paid 10K a year... i was definitely a sugamomma those few years! he could have gone for food stamps and we do know a few who did (in uniform too)... i'm glad to see that most of the pay has gone up (only with cost of living, nothing other than that though)... yet the QOL hasn't improved and the flying hasn't improved.. in fact, they've only added larger and larger planes with really little to no increase in benefits and/or pay.

I give a lot of credit to those who are in that situation and are also trying to support a family. I can't imagine how hard that is.

I think that's one of the reasons that i'm an advocate of "waiting" until your out of the regional/bottom feeder area before getting married/having kids... but not everyone can afford that nor wants to do that, nor did that...and I applaud those that are in that situation and are able to make it through that rough patch. it's not easy, esp when you have family in the mix. I don't thing doug and I would still be married had we done that.

[roz]

Oh, I hear you. I didn't marry a pilot--he became one after our marriage and I have always made more money than him, captain or not. But it's a matter about setting joint goals and working toward them together.

[Londoner]

Blimey. Just reading your comments here makes me realise how we UK girls have it relatively easy. I mean, not brilliantly (one only needs to mention a certain Irish low cost airline to see how pilots are being taken for a ride) but pay and conditions in general are much better.

On the down side, you have to pay for your training (£60,000 in my husband's case!) but he went straight onto a 737, was bonded for his type rating (so we paid up front, but got it back over his first year) and now he's earning a pretty decent wage. Nothing to write home about (and nowhere near what my colleagues assume he's making!) but he now earns more than me, which is exciting!

Plus, of course, we get at least five weeks annual leave a year...

[christykay]

Originally Posted by Kristie

I think that's one of the reasons that i'm an advocate of "waiting" until your out of the regional/bottom feeder area before getting married/having kids... but not everyone can afford that nor wants to do that, nor did that...and I applaud those that are in that situation and are able to make it through that rough patch. it's not easy, esp when you have family in the mix. I don't thing doug and I would still be married had we done that.

Originally Posted by roz

Oh, I hear you. I didn't marry a pilot--he became one after our marriage and I have always made more money than him, captain or not. But it's a matter about setting joint goals and working toward them together.

I too didn't marry a pilot...I married my best friend who did not even realize that becomming a pilot was in his future. Our life's journey has been an adventure for sure, especially in this industry...but it is OUR life's journey. You know I honestly wouldn't have traded any of it. The career change, the time or spacing of our kids, the several moves...nothing. My DH and I have a saying between the two of us:
We may not have it all together, but together we have it all.

I accept your applause and thank you for that. Not every woman can do what I do and I accept that. I am a strong woman raising four kids with a pilot for a husband. I am here doing the Mommy thing and the supportive wife thing because I chose that for me and I am good at what I do.

Because my husband didn't begin his career in the aviation field, waiting until he was out of the "regional/bottom feeder area" before getting married and having kids wasn't an option for us. What a bold statement for someone to say! True he may not be with a Major airline but what more would that honestly change if he was? DH would still be away and the kids and I would still miss him. The ONLY difference I suppose is income. Money isn't the motivating factor of DH being a pilot, obviously. He made this career change for just that, a career change. He made the choice to become a pilot because he knew that it would be a profession that he would love doing every day. Enjoying the family and kids comes first in our house. Enjoying his career and loving his job comes second. Unfortunately until you have children of your own, you will never quite understand the meaning of that statement. To each is own I suppose.

So I must go and send my DH off to his "regional/bottom feeder job" and care for the kids.
-Christina

[skyrocketocelot]

Kristie, I agree... starting out in regionals definitly qualifies as a feeder job. Low man on the totem pole will by and large equal a job that is a stepping stone to where you want to go and generally consists of either bad hours, crappy duties, low pay, or a combo of all three. You're lucky to get one positive thing out of the three! And that's in any industry, not just the airlines. Honestly, who really wants to keep low senority in a regional?? Not me and def, not my SO!! lol It's all about getting somewhere else, whether that be PIC to get to a major/cargo/etc. or senority enough to enjoy life in a regional.

IMO, having a kids and a wife to take care of in the regionals only adds to the stress our pilots have. Like Kristie said, it's not the easiest time in their careers, in fact, i daresay it's probably the hardest, as both he and those at home have to adjust to him being gone, to the pay cut, to the crazy situations that happen at work, to being a "single" parent figuring out how to reconnect with the pilot when he/she comes home... not to say it's not worth it, as obviously Christy (and I'm sure the rest of you "marrieds with children") believes it is. But again, IMO, adding little ones into the mix just brings a new level of difficulty to the whole situation and it's probably too much for some families. Holy cow, do I admire those ladies who have chosen to sacrifice so much for their guys... it's not something I think I could do. Or would want to.

By the way, "loving your family" doesn't automatically exclude those who don't have or who have chosen not to have children... or even those who aren't married. It's not like we're "lower" than you and because we do not have the blessing of kids, we don't fully understand what it means to truly "enjoy family". That in itself is a "bold statement" and honestly, rather offensive. We love our men just as much as you love yours, we just get to have them to ourselves for now. Kids are great, but so is not having them. And enjoying your job, whether or not you have kids to come home to, is even more of a blessing; for me personally, I believe, heck, I spend at least 8 hours here, I'd better darned well enjoy my time!!

Truly, to each their own, right?

[christykay]

Originally Posted by skyrocketocelot

By the way, "loving your family" doesn't automatically exclude those who don't have or who have chosen not to have children... or even those who aren't married. It's not like we're "lower" than you and because we do not have the blessing of kids, we don't fully understand what it means to truly "enjoy family". That in itself is a "bold statement" and honestly, rather offensive. We love our men just as much as you love yours, we just get to have them to ourselves for now. Kids are great, but so is not having them. And enjoying your job, whether or not you have kids to come home to, is even more of a blessing; for me personally, I believe, heck, I spend at least 8 hours here, I'd better darned well enjoy my time!! Truly, to each their own, right?

Goodness you were offended easily. If you re-read my earlier post I never once said or even implied that those who choose not to have children or choose not to marry are "lower" than me. I'm confused as to where that verbage actually came from?

As you've re-read; yes, I did state that "until you have children of your own, you will never quite understand". I have been where you are. I have been young and married with no kids, enjoying my husband and our careers. But, the moment you welcome a child into your lives changes happen to each of you and to the both of you together. It is something that you would have to experience for yourself before you could make judgement calls. Again, until you have experienced the life as a parent, there would be no way you could understand.