Reaching out to the public about pay and QOL

[rgphib]

Funny....DH grew up in Nashua, but wanted to go away for school so didn't go to Daniel Webster. He ended up going to Florida Tech (which is where we met).

We moved back up here after I graduated (I grew up in MA). We love living in NH but I can see us moving in a few years so DH doesn't have to commute anymore......I swear he will have a heartattack before 40 with the commute he has.....but if he gets BWI based at least there are a dozen flights from MHT-BWI (he has like 3 right now from MHT-EWR and they are always oversold and late or cancelled!).

[czechmate]

Originally Posted by rgphib

Funny....DH grew up in Nashua, but wanted to go away for school so didn't go to Daniel Webster. He ended up going to Florida Tech (which is where we met).

We moved back up here after I graduated (I grew up in MA). We love living in NH but I can see us moving in a few years so DH doesn't have to commute anymore......I swear he will have a heartattack before 40 with the commute he has.....but if he gets BWI based at least there are a dozen flights from MHT-BWI (he has like 3 right now from MHT-EWR and they are always oversold and late or cancelled!).

It's such a small world. My cousin went to Florida Tech!
My dh commuted from Ft. Wayne to Cincy when we were first married and that was hard enough. Our Southwest plan was to commute to BWI from Cincy or move the family to Las Vegas.

[czechmate]

Originally Posted by roz

You ladies are right to take a look at the corporate culture. That is so important and drives the way in which employees are treated and is a whole different business model. If you take care of your employees, they will take care of your shareholders and customers. Southwest has always gotten that fact--and it shows in the bottom line.

Our good friend at NetJets is a Daniel Webster graduate. He also proves the point--you don't have to go to a major to be happy. He's got friends at FedEx and all the majors who keep bugging him to walk in his resume. But he's a captain/checkairman, lives on Cape Cod and is based in Boston. If he has to start a trip from somewhere other than Boston, he gets a space positive ticket. He gets to go to exotic places and meet very interesting people on a whole different level than flying 121 service. He has the 7/7 schedule, so he can plan his life well in advance. He's happy.

DH has several friends at NetJets and almost everyone loves it.
It sounds like it would be an interesting job. Not to mention the extra perks!

[Amanda]

Originally Posted by czechmate

His dream is to fly a 757/767 (which Southwest has none) but he also wants to work for an employer who cares more than where he's at now. That's why he like Southwest so much.

Hopefully it will work out.

Did Nick have contacts inside CAL? How long did he have his application in with them until they called?

Sorry this is so long. I think this is the most I've ever written!
Jen

Glad I enouraged you to write a lot!
I don't want to upset you or anyone but wirh CAL Nick was in the right place at the right time. He met a senior Cpt while on the road and they hit it off. Nick was the one that ultimately got the job though- he has an Engineering degree at a great school, was an Army ranger and Cpt, and preps more than anyone I've ever seen. I agree that it is who you know but that won't get you the job if you have an unsuccessful interview or sim.

Nick never considered CAL until he met the Cpt since most of his friends are at other airlines. Things fell into place I guess. The 1st year pay is horrible but we are getting by. Continental has been rated very high as far as their revenue and they are continuing to grow. They are also hoping to get an improved contract in 2008.

The reason why I asked why SWA was because although it IS a fantastic company I don't agree with "putting your eggs in one basket". You never know what (or who) is around the corner.

[christykay]

Originally Posted by roz

You ladies are right to take a look at the corporate culture. That is so important and drives the way in which employees are treated and is a whole different business model. If you take care of your employees, they will take care of your shareholders and customers.

Definitely sounds like a great place to send the resume when the time is right! We'll see what the future holds.

[Kristie]

Originally Posted by czechmate

"regional/bottom feeder "

Wow - I'm totally offended.

My DH hired in with every intention of moving on - and will someday. 9/11 has affected alot of the "regional/bottom" feeder pilots. I'm so tired of the mine's bigger than yours and I'm better mentality. Someday my DH will move on and he will NEVER forget where he came from!
Jen

well, i apologize for calling it a bottom feeder. but that's what i've always known them to be. I've known and been thru the regional system when it was a means to a end, when a regional was used to gain the SIC/PIC time you needed and then you pushed onto bigger/better companies/planes/bases etc. it's like mostly used to move up thru the ranks.. thereby starting at "the bottom" and working you way to much much better career, QOL, scope/work rules, vacation (ie: "the top"). I guess it can't *totally* be classified as a bottom feeder as now quite a few pilots decide to stay there through their careers. So, in that sense, the classification has changed since we went through it. but, in my own personal opinion, i do think it's best at some point to get out of the regionals so you can have peace of mind simply because regional work is "contract" work and who knows what will happen with those contracts in the future. you don't really have that with the more major airlines.

I'm betting that someday, the regionals will go back to what they used to be, a stepping stone.

and don't think we don't recall where our roots come from.. we remember those days just like they were yesterday and we hope each pilot that has to go the same route of regional->major will be successful quicker than they are now (because of 9/11)... we don't have the bigger is better mentality, everyone has/had their own means of "getting there", my experience differed from yours and i'm relaying my own personal experience/terms. so please don't assume. when/if you get to where i am in this career, you'll probably see thing with different eyes too. each step brings new vision.

[roz]

Nothing is new. People didn't suddenly get "stuck" at regionals. There have always been those that choose to remain at the regional level as a career. There are pilots with Horizon, Allegheny (now Piedmont)/Piedmont, Air Wisconsin, etc.--companies that have roots in the system for many, many years as decent places to work. There are pilots there with 20+ years seniority.

I guess the point is, that it's a personal choice. There have always been those who, for quality of life reasons chose to remain at home at the regional level, grow senior, live in base and have out and backs so they're home every night. Regionals used to be "commuters" and there were those that used it as a stepping stone, but there were also those that used it as a career. It still is that way. There is no "better path"--it's what's right for the individual. For some that is the "much better career" and they get the best vacation and QOL for what they want.

Imagine if you lived in State College, PA (home of Penn State--Happy Valley) and bought your house in 1980, got hired by Pennsylvania Airlines which was bought by US Air in 1989 and changed its name to Allegheny and is now Piedmont. Imagine being so senior in base that you could continue to live in the home you purchased for $20,000 and raise a family, coach little league, soccer, etc. and be home every night. And now, your family is grown, the house is paid off, college is paid off and you are still home every night with US Airways travel benefits with a super senior hire date (travel is by DOH).

So, you can see that there are those that really don't care about the big jets, or even jets at all. They care about the quality of their lives. And that is always a personal decision.

Scope doesn't apply--as Jan pointed out in an earlier post in that it refers to other airlines flying your routes.

To my understanding, "bottom feeder" always referred to the less reputable ones like Mesa (not less reputable due to the employees, but less reputable due to the business practices).

[UKcats06]

I think there is a big difference between regionals like Mesa and regionals like XJet. Not a difference in the pilots, just the way they do business (kinda like what Roz said).

Based on that, I would never want dh to go to a regional like Mesa. I would rather him be a flight instructor a little longer and be able to get on with a better regional like xjet or comair. You never know what will happen and change things (like 9/11).

[christykay]

Originally Posted by roz

Nothing is new. People didn't suddenly get "stuck" at regionals. There have always been those that choose to remain at the regional level as a career. There are pilots with Horizon, Allegheny (now Piedmont)/Piedmont, Air Wisconsin, etc.--companies that have roots in the system for many, many years as decent places to work. There are pilots there with 20+ years seniority.

I guess the point is, that it's a personal choice. There have always been those who, for quality of life reasons chose to remain at home at the regional level, grow senior, live in base and have out and backs so they're home every night. Regionals used to be "commuters" and there were those that used it as a stepping stone, but there were also those that used it as a career. It still is that way. There is no "better path"--it's what's right for the individual. For some that is the "much better career" and they get the best vacation and QOL for what they want.

So, you can see that there are those that really don't care about the big jets, or even jets at all. They care about the quality of their lives. And that is always a personal decision.

Very well said, thank you!

Last Friday my 5 year old DD went to work with her Daddy. While my DH was holding her hand and walking with her she stopped briefly and proudly looked up at him and stated "Daddy you have such a cool job."
The funny thing is my DH was completing the training of a 2 week systems class at the training facility. This day he wasn't flying an airplane in another city and yet in this little girls eyes he still had the coolest job ever.

It is a choice and I am so glad that point was made. DH is a pilot doing what he was trained to do with one added benefit...he is home every night participating in the lives of our four amazing kids.

So with that said it is obvious that our QOL is defined differently than another, but every situation IS different and everyone needs to make that choice for them and their family.

[jr_lenz]

So with that said it is obvious that our QOL is defined differently than another, but every situation IS different and everyone needs to make that choice for them and their family.[/quote]

until your out of the regional/bottom feeder

Yes, the bottom feeder remark hurt my feelings too. I hate to think what we were before being*bottom feeder* b/c the regionals were a big step up for us. We are now living in the same house in the same state, and I get to say see you in 4 four days, unstead of 4 weeks! I guess when you have worked so hard to get somewhere its hard to hear your goal called a *bottom feeder*.

I think QOL is what you make of it. my family was dirt poor with six kids, me with medical problems. If you ask them they have lived the richest life ever. Right now Lance and I are the poorest we have ever been, our lives have been stripped down to the bare essentials. and we are happy. We take walks instead of going to the movies. Each of us picks out dinner for the week and I make it unstead of going out to eat. We were forced to make style changes, and found out that there is alot that we didn't need, our QOL is good b/c we chose it to be.
If we made more money...hopefully soon, we will be happy then too. I would love to be able to travel more, shop more, get the damn A/C fix. but again our QOL would be good b/c we choose it to be.


I'm not sure how to word this, b/c this post seems to have hit a lot of buttons, and I don't want to further hurt any feelings BUT:

Part of me is feling like we are are playing the pity card..."poor pilots we have it bad, we have a poor QOL and we don't get paid well, and it hard" YES it is hard, very hard, but each one of us and each of the guy had a choice and they chose to do this, and we chose/ continue to chose to stick by them.

We are not the only ones who have it rough. My oldest bro went to war and left his wife with 6 kids at home the youngest was a month old. They didn't pay him what he was promised, we as a family paid the power bill more than once b/c the gov. didn't pay her on time. He has been home a year, and is still getting back checks from them, not much good a year ago, His QOL and pay...sucked and he was in danger every day!

Friend whose husband is truck driver, forced to drive shorter and shorter days, which equal less pay. Back/ hip problems due to sitting in cab all day. gone long hours, QOL depends who you ask

close friend who is a general surgen. started his day at 5:00, the 11:00 oclock sch case was started at 4:00. multiple people pissed at his "late" schedule. finished surgery at 8:00 p.m. still had rounds to do. and was scheduled for free clinic that day. 6 cases to see that he didn't charge for. pay-great QOL- sucks. home life is a wreck, missed his daughters wedding. Works way more than our pilots, gets paid more but isn't happy. Wife is about to file.

my point is that thank GOD that Lance can fly. Thank GOD he can work. bottom feeder or top feeder they all have there place in AV and I am just happy that he can help pay the bills, I am happy that he has a place to stay (the reg.) if he chooses. I am happy that he has a place to move up to ( the majors) if he wants to. I am happy that he has a dream to chase, a family to love, and the freedom to choose.